Juvenile is just to avoid naming the teen Fisherman. Adult gets the same. It means nothing more than that. Judge's reasoning for why she can't accept it is a sacrament of confession in either case should be pretty clear with that clarified for you.
Mephis
JoinedPosts by Mephis
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161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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Mephis
You know that the Supreme Court has ruled that legal limits on clergy privileges can be set (if it's incidental to something like, say, reporting child abuse) right Fisherman? Employment Division v Smith (1990), right? States can individually choose to accomodate, or they can restrict certain activities.
"It is a permissible reading of the [free exercise clause]...to say that if prohibiting the exercise of religion is not the object of the [law] but merely the incidental effect of a generally applicable and otherwise valid provision, the First Amendment has not been offended"
Is this why we're on totally different pages here?
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Finding the value of God; Isn't it better to believe in a deity?
by Caupon inthe question as to what believing in this entity called god entails is a fairly important question that needs to be answered first.
to me, the key difference between a universe in which god exists versus one where god doesn't lies in the idea of teleology.
in my view, a universe with god entails some sort of process towards an end, an end which can be characterized with words such as bliss and unity and others.
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Mephis
There's a good argument to be made that waiting for God to come sort out problems can be very harmful. Religion is a social force towards conservatism, which can be really helpful in rapidly changing times as it can provide cohesion in a society. But when a society needs to be making quick changes then that brake to progress may not be beneficial at all.
On an individual level that can also be true. Religions deal in myths and improvable and illogical happenings. Sometimes social cohesion comes at the cost of telling people not to worry too much about their current situation because God's going to cover it next time round. That's a kind of sucky thing to do to the enslaved or the impoverished.
I hope for the Christian believers that it doesn't turn out the Zoroastrians were right. That would be so close but so far for you guys as you walk down the Chinvat bridge. Not sure they do runners-up prizes. For the non-believers, I guess we're more conscious of how we can create and shape the meaning to our lives. Quite empowering to carry our own lights through the darkness (to borrow from Kubrick).
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161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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Mephis
No, but I think sins confessed in confidentiality would be a good start. You're typing the words, not understanding them I suspect.
I don't need good luck. My country decided about 400 years ago that it's utterly retarded to allow religions to dictate to law in serious criminal matters. Unfortunately that meant you guys got the Puritans instead. Sorry!
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Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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Mephis
More bolony from you. JW "sacramental " confession is not about killing anyone to Aztec gods. It is confidentiality of the sins confessed to church elders.
How dare you impose your own opinion of what sacramental confession should be upon Jehovah's Witnesses! You imply it's confidential! And you imply that the purpose is to make a confession! Have some salami!
Did I do that right Fisherman?
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161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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Mephis
You are standing where you ought not when you impose your standards on the church. That is church holy business.
Sorry, you seem to have confused an accurate description of what isn't a sacramental confession with an imposition of standards. Do you really want to play the ludicrous argument of Aztec holy business demands sacrfiices to the blood god? Because that's a really, really dumb argument already settled in the US by the Supreme Court
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161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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Mephis
But seeking spiritual advise isn't answering your door to two elders demanding to know whether you've had sex with a minor. Nor is it hauling a teenage boy before a group of men to force a confession out of him so that he can be shunned by his friends and family.
To make JWs twisted process fit, as it is, means that you have to consider every single thing said to an elder as being under sacramental confession. That's horse manure by any standards.
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161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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Mephis
Replied to a now deleted post. -
161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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Mephis
@jwdaughter. Sorry, as you see I deleted what I typed. I think they have to fight it. It's potentially lose-lose as you say, but there's always a chance of a favorable higher court interpretation of the words 'sacramental confession'. The judge here has gone very literally. Another judge could view it as covering the JW judicial process. You raise a whole host of the other issues we all see with it there too.They really shouldn't be kicking this hard to avoid reporting serious criminal offences against minors. But they will. It's what they do.
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Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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