Posts by Mephis

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Mephis

Even so, the apostle John seems to close the gap on that, especially in Revelation.

Yeah, but even within Christianity, certainly within the Anglican communion, there's a lot of questions over some of the assumptions present in just that short sentence. I doubt it would even occur to you to question them. That's fundamentally going to be the gulf between your interpretation of scripture and JWs' too. It would be the same sort of response as if you tried to explain Yahweh being Jesus to a Gnostic. They'd think you were slightly dotty and terribly deluded. And vice versa. :) How it goes, isn't it?

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Mephis

To be fair, the reverse holds true that Trinitarians won't seriously consider the idea that Jesus wasn't God. It's one of those where a non-believer like me wants to call time out and point out that everyone's right because the NT has books in it which seem to express both ideas. And then both sides get annoyed with me instead for not seeing how the NT is like a cryptic crossword for believers to see nuanced meanings, so I'll settle for just stocking up on popcorn instead. Proverbs had it right. :D

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Mephis

The problem with apocalyptic prophecies is that you can make them fit just about anything you please.

The simple JW resolution to your argument (and I'm not saying this is or isn't or indicating agreement in any direction) would be "Well even if it says Jehovah, it just means he's behind it. Let me find another verse from Revelation to show you that you have to read the bible as a whole inerrant and literal book, apart from the bits which we've decided aren't."

My understanding of JW belief, certainly so when I was in, was that it was Jesus doing the Armageddon thing. He's the one leading the cavalry charge at the end of My Book of Bible Stories. ;)

17

Two Jehovah's Witnesses congregations abolished by courts - Russia

by OrphanCrow in

two jehovah's witnesses congregations abolished by courts.

today, 11 february 2016, an administrative lawsuit by the prosecutor of belgorod province for finding the local religious organization of jehovah's witnesses in the city of belgorod to be extremist and liquidated was granted by decision of the belgorod provincial court.

yesterday the provincial court issued a decision on the administrative lawsuit of the provincial prosecutor for liquidation of the local religious organizations of jehovah's witnesses in the city of stary oskol.. the above quote is from one of 5 articles at link.. the fourth article, doctors in court: "jehovah's witnesses died after refusing blood transfusions", gives a synopsis of the hearing in the belgorod provincial court on feb 8.. two doctors were summoned into court as witnesses in order to learn whether religious convictions have affected the state of health of jehovist patients and whether they could be the cause of the death of patients.

Mephis

That's from 2000 OC. It's a different law. "criminal liability under Article 307 of the Criminal Code"

The law for the case in your OP is the one discussed in the link I provided. From the link you gave in the OP.

"In the trial the prosecutor's office presented to the court evidence containing information about violations committed by the organizations connected with the distribution of materials of extremist contents (promoting the superiority or inferiority of a person on the basis of religious affiliation or attitude toward religion) and other violations for which the federal law "On combating extremist activity" provides accountability."

Definitely out now, and much respect to you as ever in spite of differences of view on this.

17

Two Jehovah's Witnesses congregations abolished by courts - Russia

by OrphanCrow in

two jehovah's witnesses congregations abolished by courts.

today, 11 february 2016, an administrative lawsuit by the prosecutor of belgorod province for finding the local religious organization of jehovah's witnesses in the city of belgorod to be extremist and liquidated was granted by decision of the belgorod provincial court.

yesterday the provincial court issued a decision on the administrative lawsuit of the provincial prosecutor for liquidation of the local religious organizations of jehovah's witnesses in the city of stary oskol.. the above quote is from one of 5 articles at link.. the fourth article, doctors in court: "jehovah's witnesses died after refusing blood transfusions", gives a synopsis of the hearing in the belgorod provincial court on feb 8.. two doctors were summoned into court as witnesses in order to learn whether religious convictions have affected the state of health of jehovist patients and whether they could be the cause of the death of patients.

Mephis

@OC -

It is the root cause of it OC. It is non-Orthodox religions which are targeted by the Extremist laws for teaching 'superiority of belief' in a country where the Orthodox church is protected by law to the extent that they keep trying to change the constitution to codify it even further. But my last response on this one. Have a good weekend :)

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/fighting-extremism/russia.php

17

Two Jehovah's Witnesses congregations abolished by courts - Russia

by OrphanCrow in

two jehovah's witnesses congregations abolished by courts.

today, 11 february 2016, an administrative lawsuit by the prosecutor of belgorod province for finding the local religious organization of jehovah's witnesses in the city of belgorod to be extremist and liquidated was granted by decision of the belgorod provincial court.

yesterday the provincial court issued a decision on the administrative lawsuit of the provincial prosecutor for liquidation of the local religious organizations of jehovah's witnesses in the city of stary oskol.. the above quote is from one of 5 articles at link.. the fourth article, doctors in court: "jehovah's witnesses died after refusing blood transfusions", gives a synopsis of the hearing in the belgorod provincial court on feb 8.. two doctors were summoned into court as witnesses in order to learn whether religious convictions have affected the state of health of jehovist patients and whether they could be the cause of the death of patients.

Mephis

Useful background reading for Putin cheerleaders.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/01/27/russia-growing-human-rights-crackdown

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia/russian-federation/

3

The "Wound" may soon be healed? (The split between Orthodox and Catholic)

by Terry in

the proper term is "schism.".

defined: the formal separation of a church into two churches or the secession of a group owing to doctrinal and other differences.. ___________________think: gb vs apostates___________.

in 1054, the only true universal christian church (in their opinion, of course) began a serious dispute with hard feelings on both sides which eventually resulted in a split because of geographic location, disputes on doctrine, and authority issues.. to put it in jw terms, they disfellowshipped each other's leaders and representatives, back and forth over many years.

Mephis

Unless or until they can agree on the meaning of primacy, it's not healing any time soon. The Bishop of Rome has a very clear view of what he thinks primacy is (Bishop of Rome is in charge). The Orthodox Patriarchs have their's (Bishop of Rome just chairs the committee). The Patriarch of the Russian church isn't even the most senior patriarch in the Orthodox communion - that's the Patriarch of Constantinople, and he's already met Francis as Pope too. It's a fundamental difference in opinion over how the church should be organised. One man in charge or a group of men who each have a little fiefdom? A President or a 'Governing Body'?

The WBTS' view of religious freedoms and understanding (heh) of the bible will constantly put them on a collision course with government authority even of the most benign kind. That's very true. The extent and nature of control over adherents the WBTS demands almost guarantees it.

17

Two Jehovah's Witnesses congregations abolished by courts - Russia

by OrphanCrow in

two jehovah's witnesses congregations abolished by courts.

today, 11 february 2016, an administrative lawsuit by the prosecutor of belgorod province for finding the local religious organization of jehovah's witnesses in the city of belgorod to be extremist and liquidated was granted by decision of the belgorod provincial court.

yesterday the provincial court issued a decision on the administrative lawsuit of the provincial prosecutor for liquidation of the local religious organizations of jehovah's witnesses in the city of stary oskol.. the above quote is from one of 5 articles at link.. the fourth article, doctors in court: "jehovah's witnesses died after refusing blood transfusions", gives a synopsis of the hearing in the belgorod provincial court on feb 8.. two doctors were summoned into court as witnesses in order to learn whether religious convictions have affected the state of health of jehovist patients and whether they could be the cause of the death of patients.

Mephis

Sadly not possible for a repressive state and a repressive religion to both lose the same court case. I do hope that the court cases don't lead to more mob violence and heavy handed police raids for JWs in Russia caused by one group of Biblebashing zealots not wanting competition.

75

Evolution and Atheism - please help

by Fernando in

not being familiar with either, my question is:.

what is the relationship between evolution and atheism?.

i'd love to hear from anyone and everyone, and also from any perspective.. without limiting the conversation in any way, i would of course also appreciate comments that are simple, clear, direct and correct (as i don't have the capacity to do a phd in evolution or atheism)..

Mephis

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84

Why I'm not agnostic

by Coded Logic in

i think the time to be agnostic is when you have evidence on both sides of a claim.

for example, i'm agnostic about the existence of a historical jesus.

i think a reasonable case can be made that jesus was a man who was turned into a legend over a period of a couple of decades.

Mephis

My agnosticism is around knowledge of whether a being I'd call 'God' exists. I don't know. To all intents and purposes, I don't care. It's irrelevant to my life. If one did exist, up til now my life is irrelevant to it. For me, that's an intellectual honesty check on my beliefs, well, my lack of them. Until some pretty major questions about the origin and nature of the universe are answered then I see little point in being overly dug into a position. Should those questions be answered, then I'll reassess. This is as of equal priority in my thinking, actually less, to 'what is at the bottom of a black hole?'.

I could also happily recite lists of gods I don't believe in. It's probably as long as the number of gods imagined up by humans. Agnosticism to me certainly isn't a 'sitting on the fence' position because of a lack of thought. It's a word which pretty perfectly describes where I'm at with things. If I were convinced either way, then I'd use a different word.