Posts by Mephis

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

Section 62 through 64 of the branch handbook is their internal data handling policy. It's nothing amazing, but it's on the ARC website as part of the evidence gathered there. Nothing incredibly unusual other than their assertion that they will never destroy data about a person's status as a JW because that's part of their religion to know.

The British specific policy information is contained in letters from 1999/2000. I know I posted a few, and I'm sure konceptual99 (?) posted more too. It gives what the elders actually do retain after notes have been destroyed. It's not a lot. Sure someone can link. My internet keeps dying (BT sucks) or I would repost.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

I was disappointed with Rosenberg's comments. He seemed to have missed the point, and got it wrong re paper records.
- True. There's a lot of confusion on this to be fair, and it's a culty little world of its own. Effectively WBTS are using Data Protection Act as a surrogate for a Clergy privilege not granted under British law (see their argument vs charity commission inquiry currently and compare to First Amendment defences they use in exact same manner in the US). The actual data they do retain is nominal, and of little value - for most things at least. And that's by design in Britain, because otherwise they'd have elders' judicial committee notes being demanded by 'apostates', and that could get tasty even in civil actions let alone if a judge started demanding they produce evidence for criminal cases. It's the WBTS' inherent secrecy which is the issue here, and it's that which has to be broken down if we're going to see them have effective child safeguarding which really should be the aim.

6

Two interesting places in the Bible, Bethel and Megiddo.

by Crazyguy in

first if one looks into the place bethel this is where the king of israel sets up golden calves and tells his people here is your god's go here and to dan to worship.

he didn't want his people going all the way down to jerusalem.

he also made his own priests again to take worship away from jerusalem and it's priests the levites.

Mephis

Bethel. House of God or House of El. What's in a name? ;)

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

As Joshua Rosenburg ( a big hitter in the U.K legal world) pointed out, these guys have not even studied the Data Protection Act that they are trying to hide behind, and seem not to be aware of a later Act that trumps the DPA and makes it a Criminal Offence if Elders have destroyed evidence.

Rosenburg misunderstood the intent. It's the right of the individual to obtain information under the Data Protection Act which is the reason behind the destruction of files/notes etc, not a misguided belief they are obligated to destroy data.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

Letters are here. But no names given for who received.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/news/chair-of-the-inquiry-issues-guidance-on-destruction-of-documents

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

243 institutions received letters. But regardless of receiving a letter, all institutions will be held accountable for destruction or tampering of evidence. Erm. Yeah. They're in trouble. Big trouble. Is the inhouse solicitor in London internally trained then? >_>

Justice Goddard added "No institution – whether they have received a letter or not – can be in any doubt of the extent of their duty to preserve records for the Inquiry, or of the consequences of failing to do so." We [solicitors writing this] would advise institutions to take immediate steps to prevent the destruction of any files or data relating to children in their care or the staff who looked after them, and for the time being to suspend any routine destruction of such files under data protection legislation

http://www.farrer.co.uk/Global/Briefings/Independent%20Inquiry%20into%20Child%20Sexual%20Abuse.pdf

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

Who was informed of the order? If it was IBSA House, then it's on IBSA House.

Keep in mind too that the period is from the order (June?) until December. So that's the period. There is unlikely to be a great deal of incriminating evidence. But it does draw attention to their desire to remove all evidence or not provide as much help as they could do. As does the longstanding annual rite of burning all notes, the consistent refusal to assist criminal investigations, the current battle with the Charity Commission, etc.

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Mephis

Even so, the apostle John seems to close the gap on that, especially in Revelation.

Yeah, but even within Christianity, certainly within the Anglican communion, there's a lot of questions over some of the assumptions present in just that short sentence. I doubt it would even occur to you to question them. That's fundamentally going to be the gulf between your interpretation of scripture and JWs' too. It would be the same sort of response as if you tried to explain Yahweh being Jesus to a Gnostic. They'd think you were slightly dotty and terribly deluded. And vice versa. :) How it goes, isn't it?

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Mephis

To be fair, the reverse holds true that Trinitarians won't seriously consider the idea that Jesus wasn't God. It's one of those where a non-believer like me wants to call time out and point out that everyone's right because the NT has books in it which seem to express both ideas. And then both sides get annoyed with me instead for not seeing how the NT is like a cryptic crossword for believers to see nuanced meanings, so I'll settle for just stocking up on popcorn instead. Proverbs had it right. :D

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Mephis

The problem with apocalyptic prophecies is that you can make them fit just about anything you please.

The simple JW resolution to your argument (and I'm not saying this is or isn't or indicating agreement in any direction) would be "Well even if it says Jehovah, it just means he's behind it. Let me find another verse from Revelation to show you that you have to read the bible as a whole inerrant and literal book, apart from the bits which we've decided aren't."

My understanding of JW belief, certainly so when I was in, was that it was Jesus doing the Armageddon thing. He's the one leading the cavalry charge at the end of My Book of Bible Stories. ;)