Mephis

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Posts by Mephis

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  7

  JWR archived pages - Wayback Machine

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  welcome to the jwr members who have made it over to this forum.. for anyone who needs to grab info from jwr, the pages archived at the wayback machine may be useful.. these are the archived pages from april 14, 2016:.

  https://web.archive.org/web/20160414040502/https://www.jehovahswitnessrecovery.com/forum/index.php.

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  Mephis

  Thanks OC.
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  119

  Jehovah's Witness Recovery is no more...

  by TimeBandit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just tried to go to the site and there is a goodbye message.

  i was a member there since 2010. i was really surprised.

  i had just started posting there again after being away for a while.

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  Mephis

  Zebedee here. I was just really in the process of moving on myself, other than the odd post and contact with a few people who for practical reasons can't use social media to stay in touch. Posting here because I suspect others will be doing the same for similar reasons.

  Otherwise, thanks to the staff and mods at jwr for what they put into the site. Would have been nice to have notice to just pass on details to a few people, and it's sad that so much knowledge is now gone, but so it goes. Good luck to everyone.
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Mephis

  Mephis, --You introduced the very interesting term "linear time" not much different from one dimensional time, or the "arrow of time". What I like Perry to consider is that time is more pervasive than that, Any entity in stationary time would not be subject to the law of cause and effect, that our movement through time subjects us to. Time not as a flowing river, but an endless ocean, through which we move, surf, To quote he discredited bible," --Hovered over the [endless]water--"

  Well, yes, I used a term to describe the causal nature of our universe. If you wish to place God outside of that, fine, but no amount of wet metaphors are going to handwave away the consequences which follow from that. Nor conflate the idea with static time.
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Mephis

  The post you decided to quote was talking about intelligence and its relationship to linear time. So I remain perplexed as to what point you were hoping to make there.

  But, yeah, sure one can have other conceptions of time. Not sure how that helps with Perry's problem here? A one shot intelligent actor existing between the lines of theoretical physics outermost limits? Deus ex algebra?
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Mephis

  Why say that time is linear, one dimensional? In our graphs it is always at right angles to any of the three space dimensions. Time is more pervasive than space dimensions, and can therefore predate space. When we speak of time we really mean movement through time, and that does not have to be, and perhaps was not for an eternity.

  I stated linear time because I was talking about linear time. If you can demonstrate that intelligent life exists outside of that paradigm, please do. Otherwise I'm not seeing what point you're attempting to make with that post.
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Mephis

  How do creationists explain virtual particles with reference to their unique understanding of the second law of thermodynamics these days? Is it still silence and a quick change of subject? Or how about the fun part where invoking the second law means you're making God die? Just curious.
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Mephis

  Then where are the beginnings which we can observe today that do not have a cause or a causer?

  I want nothing to do with your strawman 'causes' argument Perry. Take it in a field, stick a hat on it and call it Worzel. I'd say that the universe is jam packed full of things which do not have a causer behind them. You could easily disprove me by providing evidence there was one. The standard of evidence required to do that would win you a Nobel Prize, so looking forward to it. :)
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Mephis

  Why don't we see things beginning now without causes? If they are unnecessary for beginnings, we should be able to see many examples of this.

  You'd have to find another believer in God to ask Perry. I was talking of a causer, you want to talk about causes. They're not the same thing, no matter how much you'd like them to be.
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Mephis

  Doesn't imply a Causer? What kind of a beginning doesn't have a cause?

  Causer. That something begins doesn't imply a causer. Otherwise you'd have to have a God for God ad infinitum, wouldn't you?
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Mephis

  Only the universe having a beginning isn't news. The problem is more whether the concept of 'before a beginning' is even useful, and it certainly doesn't imply a 'causer'.

  Here's a simple truth. To perform an action, any action, takes time - no matter how brief a moment or how long. Linear time began with the big bang so far as our physics allows us to tell currently. So how is an action performed in the absence of time? No matter where one inserts it into the process, 'God magic' will never be a useful answer.