Mephis

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Posts by Mephis

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  9

  2014 master thesis about JWs LOYALITY

  by fastJehu in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  interesting (internet) finding ... after all the bunker videos on the 2016 rc.. this master thesis tries to comprehend the concept of loyalty within the jehovah’s witnesses movement.

  what does ‘loyalty’ mean to jehovah’s witnesses?

  https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/32029/loyal%20to%20jehovah's%20good%20news%20-%20susanne%20kuipers.pdf.

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  Mephis

  Quickly skimmed. Written by a non-believing but sympathetic wife of a JW. She views them as kind and caring and loving people. The problems she has of seeing the kind, caring and loving individuals and not being able to split them from their obnoxious belief systems is evident all the way through.

  She's very mistaken if she thinks valid criticism of Penton is that he looks to pre-2000 publications for information, or that he just hates JWs so his work is tainted on that basis. She also somehow tries to excuse the totalitarian methods of the WBTS because God's a totalitarian authority. Say wut? Oh and disfellowshipping isn't that common because there's about 40,000 a year across 80,000 congregations and besides it's a tiny proportion of the 15m members (!!). So not really something to worry about then.

  Thanks for the link. Will read in greater detail when I have more time. There seems some fair points made in the aspects of where JW loyalty to things come from, even if she is unable to fit it within the framework of 'why good people do really terrible things for a religion'.
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  Gods' name removed in Silver Sword?

  by AmyWatson916 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  does anyone have an explanation about why the silver sword edition of the nwt removed god's name at exodus 34:14?

  that verse is now different than the 1984 and 1970 versions of the nwt.

  odd for an organization who believes that "god's name is of the utmost importance" as it says on page 195 of the bible teach book..

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  Mephis

  The Living Bible does a similar paraphrase for that verse as part of its attempt to make the bible more accessible to children and readers who struggle with the language of other translations. Don't think simplifying something which also suits a theological point will be too far of the mark.
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  12

  Gods' name removed in Silver Sword?

  by AmyWatson916 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  does anyone have an explanation about why the silver sword edition of the nwt removed god's name at exodus 34:14?

  that verse is now different than the 1984 and 1970 versions of the nwt.

  odd for an organization who believes that "god's name is of the utmost importance" as it says on page 195 of the bible teach book..

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  Mephis

  It used to be translated as: "For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God"

  You can't have God wandering around with lots of names if you're pushing the idea that he has only one and it's the most important thing in the bible.
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  31

  AWAKE! NO. 5 2016 - Did Jesus Really Exist?

  by ttdtt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so again we go to the quality of evidence used by the wt.. you can read the article here - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no5-2016-october/did-jesus-really-exist/.

  you see the wt refer to experts with quotes.

  as is usually the case the credentials are not represented, just that they are experts (so take their word).

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  Mephis

  Amusingly, Grant wrote a book on the historical Jesus in which his conclusion is that Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher expecting the imminent end of the world. Which didn't arrive. So when he says Jesus must have existed, his Jesus is not that of the WBTS and almost every premise they take for granted to make a conclusion is flawed by citing him as support.

  When I asked about some of the issues I saw around gospels and accuracy, I got the 'holy spirit did it' answer and questions about the strength of my faith. Which is the way it always went with awkward questions. The bible is always 100% accurate and correct. Apart from the bits where the writer needs a bit of help from Brooklyn in conveying what he really meant to say...
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  31

  AWAKE! NO. 5 2016 - Did Jesus Really Exist?

  by ttdtt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so again we go to the quality of evidence used by the wt.. you can read the article here - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no5-2016-october/did-jesus-really-exist/.

  you see the wt refer to experts with quotes.

  as is usually the case the credentials are not represented, just that they are experts (so take their word).

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  Mephis

  Saename wrote: Sort of true. Whilst there would be no problem if they wanted to use modern scholarship to explain Josephus' and Tacitus' references to Jesus, they would have to deal with certain inaccuracies in the Bible if they wanted to use the Bible itself to "prove" Jesus' existence.

  The purpose of the article is to use scholarship, not internal bible logic, to try and prove Jesus existed though. Grant, for example, wrote on Tacitus and was one of many who believe/d that Tacitus' comments about 'Christians' isn't a later interpolation. But to open that can of worms is to introduce the idea that every text can be subject to such manipulation and so every one of those passages by ancient authors they cite must be buttressed against it. Josephus in particular has been subject to later editing, although there's a good case for something there being original to him. To introduce doubt to a world of black and white fundamentalism is what they are very keen to avoid.

  So really it's very true that the WBTS' writers seem to exercise great care in the source materials they use because even the case for a historical Jesus opens up all kinds of questions. Perhaps the greatest amongst them being just how accurately something written decades after an event can relate what happened - as that applies not only to every non-biblical source for Jesus but also every biblical source too!
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  15

  Russia's Supreme Court shuts down Church of Scientology

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  russian church welcomes shutdown of "moscow church of scientology".

  moscow, july 1, interfax - the russian orthodox church has welcomed a ruling by the russian supreme court which yesterday upheld the legality of a shutdown of the "church of scientology of moscow".

  "the upholding by the supreme court of the legality of the shutdown of the so-called church of scientology is seen as an important precedent demonstrating the state's determination not to recognize as religious those organizations that use people's religious feeling for malign purposes, " russian orthodox church spokesman vakhtang kipshidze told interfax-religion.the ruling in the scientologists' case is not a breach of the religious freedom since "it was proved in court that the very activity of this organization is an affront to human freedom as such," kipshidze said.the russian orthodox church regularly comes into contact with people whose membership in totalitarian sects left them deeply wounded spiritually and mentally, ruined their lives and happiness, the spokesman said.

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  Mephis

  Hey OC. Not surprised at all that the Orthodox Church were keen to comment. One of those times when a plague on both their houses is applicable. ;)
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  27

  Jehovah's Witnesses face £1m legal bill after young girl was sexually abused by one of its members

  by Researchedandenlightened in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hopefully more financial trouble for them to come in uk !!.

  jehovah's witnesses face £1m legal bill after young girl was sexually abused by one of its membersread more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/jehovah-s-witnesses-face-1m-legal-bill-after-young-girl-was-sexually-abused-by-one-of-its-members/story-29491614-detail/story.html#ixzz4dqkbhccq follow us: @leicester_merc on twitter | leicestermercury on facebookread more at http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/jehovah-s-witnesses-face-1m-legal-bill-after-young-girl-was-sexually-abused-by-one-of-its-members/story-29491614-detail/story.html#hel6rjg74wdprrdh.99.

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  Mephis

  Ridiculous that the WBTS forced the survivor to go through both the initial trial and then wait on an attempt to appeal. All because they refuse to accept that they have a duty of care and responsibility. Yet again a British court has pointed out the blazingly obvious to them. Caesar will not allow the men in Brooklyn to thumb their noses at the law just because they're a religion.
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  31

  AWAKE! NO. 5 2016 - Did Jesus Really Exist?

  by ttdtt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so again we go to the quality of evidence used by the wt.. you can read the article here - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no5-2016-october/did-jesus-really-exist/.

  you see the wt refer to experts with quotes.

  as is usually the case the credentials are not represented, just that they are experts (so take their word).

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  Mephis

  I'm agnostic on a historical Jesus. But agree with bohm that the WBTS manage to make a real mush of even a decent attempt to prove it. I suppose the problem they have is that going to modern scholarship turns up lots of inconvenient issues which would need to be airbrushed out. Not least the problem that acknowledging the plausability of a historical Jesus says nothing about the accuracy of the gospel accounts.
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  20

  WT Article - David Versus Goliath—Did It Really Happen?

  by ttdtt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-no5-2016-september/david-versus-goliath-real/.

  the article ends with this:.

  there is no real basis for doubting the truthfulness of this historical account.

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  Mephis

  There is no real basis for doubting the truthfulness of this historical account. It involves real people and real places.

  Other than the story as it's given in the bible is internally inconsistent and so at best only contains a kernel of truth?
  David is made an armour bearer to Saul because he can play music to chase off the evil spirit God send to torment Saul (I know right?). Saul knows him, and his father. An armour bearer would be in close proximity to the person who he is attending. Trusted to be in close proximity. David then turns up to fight Goliath where Saul doesn't recognise him whatsoever and hasn't a clue who his father is. After killing Goliath, Saul keeps him at his court and David works his way up the ranks etc etc.
  If you think this part of the bible is a collected edition of tales about a semi-mythological founding father of a royal dynasty, this makes sense. David gets all the good stories attributed to him and they all get written down even if they don't mesh neatly into one biography. So, right from the start, you've a good indication there's darn fine reasons to doubt this account is either historical or truthful.
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  7

  JWR archived pages - Wayback Machine

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  welcome to the jwr members who have made it over to this forum.. for anyone who needs to grab info from jwr, the pages archived at the wayback machine may be useful.. these are the archived pages from april 14, 2016:.

  https://web.archive.org/web/20160414040502/https://www.jehovahswitnessrecovery.com/forum/index.php.

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  Mephis

  Thanks OC.