I know what you're saying Cofty. But if only God can give spirit, explain the Angel babies pre-Flood. It's not a slam dunk like you think. Their teachings are an unholy globular mess because they're trying to duck the 'soul'.
Mephis
JoinedPosts by Mephis
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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Mephis
Correct. Where would you like to pretend there's a contradiction?
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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Mephis
The quotes I gave you above say otherwise.
You'll find I summarised the direct quote very correctly.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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Mephis
This does not mean that the life-force [spirit] actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God’s hands, so to speak. Only by God’s power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again.
They've transformed the idea (and the words) into a metaphor. It's their way round the whole 'soul' problem. And it leaves lots of wriggle room on the question you pose too. God doesn't literally get the spirit back. He doesn't literally have to give it to make something alive. Or they'd have to explain where God fits in with the baby making process etc etc.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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Mephis
In JW world, if science produces life from rocks the cell would have spirit. Where would that have come from?
From the scientists who were created by God. Just as angels could have babies before the Flood by making physical bodies for themselves.
You're looking for a way to pin this down when it's gibberish to start with Cofty. There isn't a huge shift required for them to explain it away. 'Spirit' is just another way of saying 'alive'.
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405
Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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Mephis
I don't really see it either there. The 'spirit' is like electricity in the links Cofty gave. They have to clarify that on death the spirit doesn't really go back to God because it becomes a way of saying 'something is alive' - which seems flatly in contradiction to the bible verses they have to address. The article addresses 'only' God raising the dead, but not whether God's involved every time a baby is made. (Because if he is, oops on the angels, women and Flood thing!).
The question is whether man making life would be problematic. And I'm not sure it is. In JW theology, God isn't involved in the production of spirit on a day-to-day basis. It's passed on, but he's the only originator. It's whether or not the means of transmission is an issue should scientists one day create life. I suspect that it won't be a huge problem for them to explain away, as the article SBF linked hints at.
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Canadian Appeal Court decision made the news: Judges can overturn unfair church edicts
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://news.nationalpost.com/news/religion/alberta-appeal-court-rules-judges-can-overturn-unfair-church-edicts.
the other day, this court decision was posted on jwn along with a link to the court document, but few expected the media to pick up the story.
so to all involved, i understand it was a surprise to see the story in print.
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Mephis
Wow. This is really surprising. I can't see that ever happening in America.
The principle exists in the US where if a 'shunning' by a community impacts upon your business then there is potentially a case to be heard by a court. (eg Bear v. Reformed Mennonite Church, Pennsylvania, 1975). But, you're right, more often civil law isn't keen at all to intervene in cases like this. We may disagree with the parallel drawn about a religious community being like a private members' club, but that is how they have been treated for things like this for a very long time across a number of jurisdictions. A court can't force people not to shun someone.
Will be interesting to see what practical remedy is suggested by the Canadian courts should they ultimately rule in this man's favour. -
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Origin of Life
by cofty inin recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
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Mephis
Does 'the breath of life' actually need to come from God? You're right, there's absurdities in there, but they've shuffle room. 'God's creation made life therefore it's still coming from God'. That kind of nonsense. 'When a baby is born, God doesn't breathe life into each and very baby...;. 'It's a metaphor...;. -
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Directed panspermia - a plausible theory of intelligent design?
by EdenOne ini have just read an interesting article by astrobiologist jacob haq-misra.. in this article he describes a process called "directed panspermia" as a plausible way that one form of intelligent design - one not related with religious driven agendas involving theism - could be involved in the process by which life developed on earth and possibly in other planets as well.. sounds like a speculation that's worth entertaining.
your thoughts?.
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Mephis
Would have more time for it if there were evidence for life having been brought to earth. That's the point where the various ideas on how that may have happened would start to get interesting. Until then, not really much to it. -
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What is the Education Level of the Governing Body members?
by Wild_Thing ini would love to compile a list of the education obtained by the governing body members both past and present.
can anyone provide any information to get me started?.
it still amazes me they think they can translate ancient languages with an 8th grade education.
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Mephis
Lloyd Barry and Albert Schroeder had degrees, didn't they? Don't think either of them involved languages relevant to translating the Bible from Greek etc.
On Schroeder: "He studied Latin, German, and electrical engineering at the University of Michigan."
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006689