Nitty Gritty, I'd have thought you'd need to consult your constitution and case law for an answer, unless that was your point - that unscrupulous individuals will hide behind that and it will need some political willpower Stateside to address institutional issues within religions? The Australian Commission is unlikely to be the first. Charity regulator here in Britain, and also the prospect of a similar process to the Australian one too coming up. Bill Bowen has it right. And had it right all those years ago.
Mephis
JoinedPosts by Mephis
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47
A few facts to ponder
by Nitty-Gritty ini have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.
some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.
this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.
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A few facts to ponder
by Nitty-Gritty ini have been in correspondence recently with silentambs and a few interesting things have been highlighted.
some of you may know, that bill bowen has twice tried to get the fbi involved in investigating child molestation issues in the jws org.
this is what he said to me, i quote: we have reported to the fbi on two occasions and were rebuffed due to them not wishing to get involved with a religion.
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Mephis
Can I just check what you're asking? You're asking why the FBI in the States doesn't want to enter the situation where they are forced to fight a religion for access to their documents in order to highlight institutional failure and civil negligence when their remit to fight crime can be met by focusing on individual offenders? Is that the question? -
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Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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Mephis
They'll shift to meet legislation. That may be the option for some countries, and it may even be something you guys in the States can do too. Mandated reporting, no ifs, no buts, do not pass Go, contact the Police or go directly to jail.
But the whole process and procedure of their internal judicial structure... they're still hauling people in front of judicial committees to face their abusers in spite of said abusers just being out of prison for those very offences. They need to broaden their evidence requirements. They can do this easily. Their internal letters show that they can re-write the meaning of a word when it suits their needs.
I mean really you'd expect them to introduce training around child safeguarding issues for elders, you'd expect a clear policy for how someone could report, you'd expect some basic organisational 101 stuff to be going on. But they have to accept first that they have a responsibility. That they have a duty. That saying 'but we warn parents...' is not sufficient on its own.
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RC on CNN - Damn this is Damning!!!
by jw07 ineven cnn has picked up the ongoing royal commission hearings.
i'm sitting back and eating popcorn for this one, it's like a dream come through.. http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/28/australia-jehovah-witness-sex-abuse-hannigan-lklv.cnn.
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Mephis
Call it for what it is. 1 Peter 2. Accountability in line with scripture. Why are they fighting it? -
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WT Financial strategy to reduce liability - Create artificial debt!!!!!!
by Viva la Vida insee this letter from the royal commission: .
letter from watchtower australia to governing body regarding transfer of funds between branches.
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=61967dc3-2203-4cca-8dc7-cd612c66645e&type=exhibit&filename=wat.0012.001.0023&fileextension=pdf.
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Mephis
Interesting sidenote, but in Britain, I can't find WBTS registered for privacy law purposes. Instead, they've got IBSA registered which I'd imagine wouldn't be an acronym familiar to too many, or at least not readily come to mind without knowing history of org in Britain. Under British law, one can make a subject access request and see what information is held about you by an organisation. Why is IBSA registered but not WBTS? Hmm. -
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Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?
by Wasanelder Once inare you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?
do you feel personally vindicated by it?
do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?
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Mephis
There's a part of me glad that things are being pulled out into the press across the world. Really showing that this isn't just 'one bad apple' or a 'rogue body of elders'. Perhaps even helping to stop this ever happening again, or at least alerting people to the dangers. But the cost to those who have suffered, those who have been standing up for years, for those who step forward to speak of what they went through... it shouldn't need them to have to do this. And I really do wish it had never happened to have to be revealed, and that something without the trauma and suffering inflicted upon children was opening people up to why culty stuff like JWs is so dangerous. -
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Branch Service Department Manual approves appointing Child molestors as Elders
by stuckinamovement inhttp://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=7ba22716-556c-43c2-9fc6-76697afad440&type=exhibit&filename=wat.0001.004.0076&fileextension=pdf
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Mephis
27 August 2013 is date given in exhibit list I believe BoC. -
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WT Financial strategy to reduce liability - Create artificial debt!!!!!!
by Viva la Vida insee this letter from the royal commission: .
letter from watchtower australia to governing body regarding transfer of funds between branches.
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=61967dc3-2203-4cca-8dc7-cd612c66645e&type=exhibit&filename=wat.0012.001.0023&fileextension=pdf.
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Mephis
Oh that letter is fun! It's a deliberate attempt to massage their accounts to evade their legal obligations under Australian privacy law on the records they could hold about individuals. Obviously the commission is concerned about the records of those alleged to be abusers, because it shows how far they go to avoid letting those records be known about. And also it implicates Brooklyn directly. Nice find. Saw passing reference to it in the opening statement by counsel. (edit: or I may be mistaken, and that was something about a new corporation being formed for presumably 'financial' purposes) -
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FMF Rant on Abuse and JW Apologists: The Single Root of the Whole Issue(s)
by freemindfade infor the jw apologists, they debate certain factors to down play all the recent sex abuse information in the jehovah's witness organization.
and there is so much focus on "two witness rule" and "parents can report" the "elders aren't legal authorities" and many other smoke screen issues.
a lot of these issues and discussion are down stream from what i believe to be the root of the issue.
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Mephis
I don't think that aspect is unwitting Bonsai. It's the end point for this chain of evidence.
It will be an absolute vindication of those who've been speaking out for so long and for those who took their cases to the commission. The organisation is being backed into a corner where they either are negligent or culpable. And in either case absolutely morally bankrupt.
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Another Shocking clip From JW Australia Royal investigation Elder would not report MURDER
by Watchtower-Free inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfj1ecde5fy.
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Mephis
Yeah, that's what they try to claim and where it seems to stem from with reporting. Problem is, even their interpretation of that is a very American one so in other countries it just looks deranged to try to claim an absolute right when it may exist only in a very limited form at the discretion of a court, let alone apply to them.