Sorry possum, the dislike on that last post was because I'm using phone and it should have been a 'like' (fat thumbs here). I'm so sorry you and your's went through so much inside that vile cult. I hope the commission has treated you kindly and that there will be some redress for you as you heal. Good luck with your university course.
Mephis
JoinedPosts by Mephis
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19
Human rights issue
by possum inhi, i am possum and have been posting for a short time just thought i would introduce myself with much trepidation.
i am a third generation ex witness.
grandparents originally lured into cult in 1920 after the death of a precious child.
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Jehovah's Witnesses "Handling Child Abuse Matters" flowchart
by jwleaks injw leaks courtesy of the australian royal commission.
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Mephis
The letter signed by W.M Lloyd to be associated with this is pretty dynamite. It queries a number of instructions from Brooklyn which would seem to have been intended to try and reduce the amount of co-operation elders would give to the police in Australian states with mandated reporting. (Letter is WAT.0004.001.0014 and dated 29th October 1997).
To quote from it:
"Secondly, we are not sure why only a simple statement [recording someone as a 'known' abuser] should be placed in the file. If the matter is to be reported, it is quite likely that the elders will later be called to testify when it is brought to court. If that happens, then would it not be better to have a complete record on file of the contents of the statement made to the authorities? Is there any reason that we have overlooked for not having a complete record of the statement given on file?"
This isn't negligence, this is deliberate.
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Jehovah's Witnesses "Handling Child Abuse Matters" flowchart
by jwleaks injw leaks courtesy of the australian royal commission.
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Mephis
The document id for the file is in the top right hand corner. (WAT.0012.001.0013) It's dated 29 October 1997, and has some related notes with it.
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Jehovah's Witnesses "Handling Child Abuse Matters" flowchart
by jwleaks injw leaks courtesy of the australian royal commission.
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Mephis
Just look where they think reporting child abuse to the police is appropriate. These utter morons will send two elders to ask whether someone who has been accused of a serious crime would like to confess, and then report to the authorities. If two or three witnesses go to them, they'll report it and then go and tell the person accused that they've reported them to the police.
It would be humorous if it weren't such a recipe for very serious consequences.
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JW EXPERT WITNESS FLOORED BY COMMISSION OF INQUIRY LAWYER
by steve2 inmuch has already been written about dr monica applewhite, the expert witness hired by the jw organization.
her job was to provide "expert" testimony to the australian commission of inquiry into jehovsh's witnesses' policies and practices on child sexual abuse.
astonishingly, dr applewhite was unprepared for the inquiry lawyers' questions.
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Mephis
Applewhite's problem was that she was reviewing the literature without any understanding whatsoever of the context in which that literature would be read. Stewart's line of questioning was brilliant in opening that aspect up, and also forcing her to step away from 'defence expert who wrote a review of literature devoid of context' into 'professional child protection expert'.
But her reports have fed the JW view of themselves. That they are different, that they are God's chosen organisation, that they do everything better than anyone else. For them, that's the point they are defending. They see everything as 'one bad apple' or 'a failure of parents'. They are absolutely blind to the concept that their religious practices, beliefs and formal procedures create the climate where not only can abuse continue unchecked, but which may also contribute to abuse happening in the first place. That's going to be a very hard concept for them to grasp. I don't think they ever will. They've not even fully realised that they have a duty of care here, in spite of losing cases in at least two countries on that issue.
Instead, it's far easier to retreat into the idea that this is Satan persecuting them, trying to force them to deviate from God's written word, and to treat it as 'war' where they are required to fight against it. In what could be a collaborative process, that stands out. The commission's suggested already that they've noticed 'antipathy' towards secular authorities. To me, much of the elders' evidence has already shown that. Bowditch's comment on him telling a 'close friend, if I associated with them' outside the congregation stank of it, for instance. His comment that he hadn't read the statement of the survivor because he "wanted to be truthful" too. And Ali's failure to mention that they had a confession as well as other witnesses. But to his mind, that was ok, because the confession didn't count and the other witnesses weren't 'reliable'. They're rationing the truth until pinned down under direct questioning and demonstration that they've been misleading at best.
How do you force this cult to come to realise they have issues here? When to admit them then destroys their own self-decreed exceptionality? And to properly address the issue would require some major doctrinal changes?
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JW EXPERT WITNESS FLOORED BY COMMISSION OF INQUIRY LAWYER
by steve2 inmuch has already been written about dr monica applewhite, the expert witness hired by the jw organization.
her job was to provide "expert" testimony to the australian commission of inquiry into jehovsh's witnesses' policies and practices on child sexual abuse.
astonishingly, dr applewhite was unprepared for the inquiry lawyers' questions.
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Mephis
[edited because posted inwrong tab. Sorry.]
But persecution complex, "missed the point" said the commissioner, not a surprise the WBTS felt this report was appropriate. Not a surprise that even that was because the expert hired hadn't a fricken clue what she was reviewing meant.
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WT Lawyer trying to force His Honour to allow Miss Apple to garner more info showing how good WT is
by umbertoecho inhello to all who are watching.
his honour is being tested by wt lawyer in the last thirty minutes of day 4. the lawyer wants to bring in updates on the societies handling of child molestation cases.. his honour tells the lawyer that if he "lawyer" wants a contest between who is better than who....forget it.. his honour is slightly pissed off as wt lawyer just won't back down and insists that this evidence is very important and........"progressive" ( i think ) his honour then continues to tell nice wt jerk type lawyer, that if he thinks this will dispel all that happened to past victims..........think again.. i rough summary but fairly accurate people......god, that wt lawyer is a hateful lying, scheming son of a bitch........
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Mephis
I think she had a few moments of epiphany on the stand yesterday. Being guided through why Group Therapy was going to be a huge problem for JWs by Stewart just illustrated how ill-equipped she was (is?) to even to begin to state expert opinions upon even their literature.
Her comments at the end seemed to indicate, as Listener suggests, that she won't be repeating the same mistake as she has been making.
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One of the most important questions.
by Lemonp init is enthralling having everything being dragged kicking and screaming into the light of day.
however one of the most important things to ask is this:.
is the rc evidence admissable in other countries and other courts?.
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Mephis
The evidence gathered by the Royal Commission is part of the public record. If it applies, or if it can be shown to apply, it can be used as support. And at the very least may well point to similar information existing elsewhere which is directly applicable. More generally, I'd think that other countries will be looking at the conclusions and recommendations eventually to be given when formulating their own policies. Sensible organisations may well also look towards a 'gold standard' which may be provided by the Australians with this process.
I know nearly all of us here have left a background of total disengagement with the political process, but as Robert says above, some things about this we can help with directly from the outside. A mandatory reporting law, for instance, closes off that loophole for the JWs. So even a short message to your local politician representing you at national level can have an impact.
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Dr Applewhite and Child Abuse
by snare&racket ini am shocked that an expert would simply examine only the literature given to her by the organisation she was defending and simply accept it.
also the ease she has in making huge sweeping statements when comparing the jw's to all other international religious organisations simply undermines her professionalism.. i am also thoroughly shocked at her blatant, 'expert for hire', 'will defend anyone' apparent decision making, the organisation is responsible for covering up thousands of abuse victims by its own records, in australia alone!
never mind their judicial process being heartless and traumatic!.
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Mephis
Sabin. She was their regular expert. She's been used before, three or four times? She writes up nice things about their literature and how advanced they were to mention child abuse in the 80s. Sadly, she has absolute no idea about the closed community, how what is written actually applies nor even the underlying meanings of the things she is praising. And the commission made that clear to her. You could see the moment when she realised that she had a choice between her own conscience (and life's work) in protecting children or to continue to blindly testify for the WBTS. Her conscience won. That's something the WBTS could profit in learning from. -
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Day 4 Looks to Be Live at Any Moment - Link...and Upcoming Witness List!
by LostGeneration inhttps://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.
anyone know who this monty baker is?
i'm sure this guy will be able to tell the rc how things work behind the scenes without all the evasiveness, being that he is an "apostate".
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Mephis
@snare&racket The case I was thinking of was the Manchester one which resulted in the full investigation being launched (I'm currently in Manchester, but grew up in Wales). But, yeah, and no doubt there are other examples - perhaps even from Australia itself. They already used the information from the civil case which was just decided here in today's hearing, so I think they're very aware of what is happening in Britain too.
Guess we'll see what happens longer term. Will be interesting to see just how much of the commission's advice the 'expert' is willing to take-on. She came across at the end as having a genuinely professional head on. Whether she can cut through borgspeak though...