I think they know Umberto. Stewart's showing it by his line of questioning. McClellan by his comments yesterday. At the same time, they're conscious that these guys are just totally oblivious to the inconsistencies in what they write and the culture they create.
Mephis
JoinedPosts by Mephis
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239
Royal Commission Live Hearing Now
by LostinJapan inwednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.
case study 29, july 2015, sydney.
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239
Royal Commission Live Hearing Now
by LostinJapan inwednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.
case study 29, july 2015, sydney.
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Mephis
Stewart's dismantling their approach to confidentiality as reason for not working with authorities as set out in their last letter about 'legal matters' to elders. Effectively, this is their hope to claim ecclesiastical privilege in Oz, at least, being forensically kicked apart. -
239
Royal Commission Live Hearing Now
by LostinJapan inwednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.
case study 29, july 2015, sydney.
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Mephis
He's got Toole to say that his understanding that going to court is prohibition of civil cases. Stewart mentions that there is also often a civil case which goes along with the criminal case. Still indicates he's very sceptical that Toole's understanding is one shared at congregation level about criminal cases. -
239
Royal Commission Live Hearing Now
by LostinJapan inwednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.
case study 29, july 2015, sydney.
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Mephis
lol thanks LostInJapan. -
239
Royal Commission Live Hearing Now
by LostinJapan inwednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.
case study 29, july 2015, sydney.
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Mephis
Stewart wants the latest version of the directions for Branch offices. WT counsel suggests he'll ask. McClellan informs him that he'll do better than that and provide an answer. WT counsel asks that the book setting it out not be made public. McClellan will not give a 'yes' or 'no' and comments Royal Commissions work in public so will need to be convinced why it should be kept secret. -
239
Royal Commission Live Hearing Now
by LostinJapan inwednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.
case study 29, july 2015, sydney.
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Mephis
Stewart's establishing that there are no formal documentation for how the JWs run themselves. Toole disclaims all knowledge. McClellan wants to try to establish why their own lawyer doesn't know, wants to know how Aussie branch is actually run and relationship to Brooklyn. -
239
Royal Commission Live Hearing Now
by LostinJapan inwednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.
case study 29, july 2015, sydney.
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Mephis
Toole is in charge of the legal department. WT paid for him to study law. Stewart already, in first two questions, refusing to allow him to slide out of answering the question asked. The GB is responsible for setting policy. After a couple of attempts, "that's what I understand". Toole's trying the 'the branches are responsible for application' approach. -
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Rodney Spinks' Performance
by maksutov init seems like there has not been as much discussion here about the rc testimony on day 6 (4th august) as there has been about previous days.
i was quite surprised by rodney spinks' testimony, which was a marked contrast to the bungling and inarticulate testimony of the elders that appeared before him.
spinks seemed reasonably co-operative, and a lot more willing to concede points than anyone else has been.
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Mephis
Brass tacks with his testimony was that they like power but really aren't keen on the whole responsibility thing. Wonder how quoting some of Spinks testimony back to a local judicial committee would work out. There's a moral cowardice in the WBTS - they are very keen to dictate within the community, but when questioned on that by those outside, well it's those daft enough to follow their 'advice' who are at fault. They're ever so 'umble mi'lud. There's a part of me which has some sympathy with all those stupid, silly men who think that they just need to pick up the phone to get top quality advice on child safeguarding when reality is they get a generic, flawed and inappropriate set of guidelines they already have read back to them. Jehovah's Organisation in a nutshell.
His attitude towards women in particular was striking. He probably doesn't realise he's doing it. His desire to not answer the question asked, well, I think he's fully aware of that from how he responded to McClellan's pulling him up.
And the passive aggressive nonsense about 'scriptures' and how happy they are to see others go to prison because of what they've been told by WBTS. One wouldn't expect him to acknowledge that their interpretation is purely an interpretation and they're picking out sentences to support how they do things, but at the same time they're happy enough to new light things whenever it suits them. Still, McClellan is clearly aware of the absurdity of being assured that JW HQ will always follow the law whilst being told, at the same time, they get to decide which laws they want to follow.
There's a major issue if the GB is handwaving any responsibility for policies and procedures around child abuse, when it's their own interpretation of scriptures which then creates those policies and procedures and leaves them unchanging. One can appreciate their desire to pass things off to Oz branch rather than set precedents for other countries (especially the States), but it gets to the heart of how this group operates as this is meant to be a religion, not a multinational printing corporation with regional HQs.
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Interesting development
by InquiryMan inhttp://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/08/04/jehovahs-witnesses-change-abuse-rules.
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jws in australia agrees to change procedures in regards to reporting abuse..
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Mephis
You're correct Tornintwo. The dub from Oz HQ just restated their view on complying with law. He got a new understanding that elders and service desk who receive confessions/evidence which convinces them as to guilt over crime actually fall under a specific Australian state law which means they have to report. He got very excited about the prospect of printing a new book to help explain their policies more clearly for Aussie JWs. Otherwise... no change.. he even tried his hand at minimising the numbers and stating they'd expect Aussie jdubs to go to prison rather than the GB re-interpreting the bible to conform with a law. -
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Mandatory reporting of Child sexual abuse and the failure to report when it`s not mandatory.
by smiddy inthe jehovah`s witnesses are on record as saying they obey the law in reporting child sex abuse when it is mandatory in the state or territory where it occurred .. in other words where it is not mandatory they do not report such abuse.. they will only do so if the law of the land requires them to do so.. where is the duty of care ,the protection of the victim ,the support ,and the legal protection , he or she would get from the government sponsored systems in place to protect such victims.. they obviously do not have the victims welfare as a first priority , if they did they would report it to the relevant departments of concern as soon as they became aware of such abuse , but they do not.regardless of whether it was mandatory or not.. it obviously has to do with protecting their perceived image of themselves in the community of not having a problem with child sex abuse.. as has been stated many times : "you " / " we" do not want to drag jehovah`s name through the mud".
and as the" royal commission " focusing on jehovah`s witnesses is demonstrating , children`s welfare are not being met.. smiddy.
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Mephis
DesirousofChange - the judicial committee is not a confessional. It receives confessions, but it is not a confessional. There is no veil of secrecy whatsoever. The Catholic priest doesn't fill forms out for his bishop about the confession he's just received, let alone send off all the details to a database held in the Vatican. One doesn't have three priests sat in the confessional box. etc etc. The Jdubs use the US constitution which guarantees certain rights for religions, but elsewhere, they don't get to tell a court 'we used a scripture, you can't touch us'.