If one were being very charitable, one could point to their confusion around religious freedom. They seem to think that they are only accountable to God for their actions. Anything which sounds like it may interfere with their 'religious freedoms' sends them scurrying to court. But even in the US, there are limits. And they've already had the law explained to them at a Tribunal by a judge here in Britain. So they'll call it a fight for religious freedom, and everyone else will wonder what kind of religion wants freedom from effective child safeguarding policies.
Mephis
JoinedPosts by Mephis
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WBTS goes to Court of Appeal (Charity Commission investigation)
by Mephis inafter a number of high profile cases where both children and survivors clearly weren't adequately protected, the charity commission here in the uk launched an investigation into the wbts as a whole here in britain.
the main concerns are around the child safeguarding policies being inadequate.
wbts have fought every step of the way so far.. wbts have been to the high court, who told them to complain to the proper tribunal.. wbts have been to the proper tribunal, who told them that too darn right there were suitable grounds for the charity commission to want to investigate their inability to protect children.. and now the wbts have gone back to the court of appeal to demand that the charity commission inquiry be halted.. i hope the court of appeal tells them that, yes, they too need to have proper safeguarding measures for children and to get on with co-operating with the investigation.. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/charity-commission-defends-its-investigation-into-jehovahs-witness-charity-in-the-court-of-appeal.
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WBTS goes to Court of Appeal (Charity Commission investigation)
by Mephis inafter a number of high profile cases where both children and survivors clearly weren't adequately protected, the charity commission here in the uk launched an investigation into the wbts as a whole here in britain.
the main concerns are around the child safeguarding policies being inadequate.
wbts have fought every step of the way so far.. wbts have been to the high court, who told them to complain to the proper tribunal.. wbts have been to the proper tribunal, who told them that too darn right there were suitable grounds for the charity commission to want to investigate their inability to protect children.. and now the wbts have gone back to the court of appeal to demand that the charity commission inquiry be halted.. i hope the court of appeal tells them that, yes, they too need to have proper safeguarding measures for children and to get on with co-operating with the investigation.. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/charity-commission-defends-its-investigation-into-jehovahs-witness-charity-in-the-court-of-appeal.
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Mephis
Basically, 3 senior judges (think Master of Rolls is on this case - ie the most senior civil judge in England) decide whether or not a High Court Judge was wrong to tell WBTS that they should appeal to a Tribunal not to court.
They can decide he was, and then WBTS can appeal in court against being investigated. Or they can decide he was absolutely right and the Tribunal decision stands so would WBTS now get on with co-operating with the investigation. Or they can decide he was right, but WBTS can still appeal against being investigated.
Charity Commission's argument is that the Tribunal is the defined way to challenge investigations, and to allow every charity to run to court to prevent an investigation would only benefit those with big wallets.
Surprised it wasn't sorted today, but shouldn't take long. Days or weeks at most.
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WBTS goes to Court of Appeal (Charity Commission investigation)
by Mephis inafter a number of high profile cases where both children and survivors clearly weren't adequately protected, the charity commission here in the uk launched an investigation into the wbts as a whole here in britain.
the main concerns are around the child safeguarding policies being inadequate.
wbts have fought every step of the way so far.. wbts have been to the high court, who told them to complain to the proper tribunal.. wbts have been to the proper tribunal, who told them that too darn right there were suitable grounds for the charity commission to want to investigate their inability to protect children.. and now the wbts have gone back to the court of appeal to demand that the charity commission inquiry be halted.. i hope the court of appeal tells them that, yes, they too need to have proper safeguarding measures for children and to get on with co-operating with the investigation.. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/charity-commission-defends-its-investigation-into-jehovahs-witness-charity-in-the-court-of-appeal.
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Mephis
They're an absolute disgrace. They've already been told by a judge last year that their continued attempts to get around being investigated are putting children at risk. Not made a difference. They'll try to bury this in the European courts if they're allowed to. Pretend it's a matter of religious rights. The only good thing about the taxpayer subsidising them (as they're a charity) is that it does allow their refusal to behave like responsible grown-up to be investigated. -
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WBTS goes to Court of Appeal (Charity Commission investigation)
by Mephis inafter a number of high profile cases where both children and survivors clearly weren't adequately protected, the charity commission here in the uk launched an investigation into the wbts as a whole here in britain.
the main concerns are around the child safeguarding policies being inadequate.
wbts have fought every step of the way so far.. wbts have been to the high court, who told them to complain to the proper tribunal.. wbts have been to the proper tribunal, who told them that too darn right there were suitable grounds for the charity commission to want to investigate their inability to protect children.. and now the wbts have gone back to the court of appeal to demand that the charity commission inquiry be halted.. i hope the court of appeal tells them that, yes, they too need to have proper safeguarding measures for children and to get on with co-operating with the investigation.. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/charity-commission-defends-its-investigation-into-jehovahs-witness-charity-in-the-court-of-appeal.
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Mephis
Just edited it in Londo. Sorry, the quoting was misbehaving. -
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WBTS goes to Court of Appeal (Charity Commission investigation)
by Mephis inafter a number of high profile cases where both children and survivors clearly weren't adequately protected, the charity commission here in the uk launched an investigation into the wbts as a whole here in britain.
the main concerns are around the child safeguarding policies being inadequate.
wbts have fought every step of the way so far.. wbts have been to the high court, who told them to complain to the proper tribunal.. wbts have been to the proper tribunal, who told them that too darn right there were suitable grounds for the charity commission to want to investigate their inability to protect children.. and now the wbts have gone back to the court of appeal to demand that the charity commission inquiry be halted.. i hope the court of appeal tells them that, yes, they too need to have proper safeguarding measures for children and to get on with co-operating with the investigation.. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/charity-commission-defends-its-investigation-into-jehovahs-witness-charity-in-the-court-of-appeal.
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Mephis
After a number of high profile cases where both children and survivors clearly weren't adequately protected, the Charity Commission here in the UK launched an investigation into the WBTS as a whole here in Britain. The main concerns are around the child safeguarding policies being inadequate. WBTS have fought every step of the way so far.
WBTS have been to the High Court, who told them to complain to the proper Tribunal.
WBTS have been to the proper Tribunal, who told them that too darn right there were suitable grounds for the Charity Commission to want to investigate their inability to protect children.
And now the WBTS have gone back to the Court of Appeal to demand that the Charity Commission inquiry be halted.
I hope the Court of Appeal tells them that, yes, they too need to have proper safeguarding measures for children and to get on with co-operating with the investigation.
Charity Commission defends its investigation into Jehovah's Witness charity in the Court of Appeal
Following decisions against them at the Charity Tribunal and High Court, the trustees of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Britain (the leading Jehovah’s Witness charity in the UK) have asked the Court of Appeal to permit their legal challenge to the statutory inquiry into their activities that was opened by the commission in 2014. No decision was reached today.
The commission is investigating how Watch Tower safeguards children and adults at risk. It has been seeking access to the registered charity’s records since 2014. Watch Tower disputes the legal basis of the commission’s inquiry and its order seeking documents from the charity. Today’s hearing forms part of its longstanding litigation against the commission. The commission has argued that the Charity Tribunal is the appropriate venue for such cases. It has warned that if the Court rules otherwise, it may risk excluding less well-funded charities from accessing justice via the less costly Tribunal.
The commission is committed to robustly investigating allegations that charities do not have adequate safeguarding policies and practices. It continues to defend its statutory inquiry into Watch Tower. It encourages people who have been affected by safeguarding in congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in England and Wales to make contact with the inquiry lead investigator Jonathan Sanders at [email protected]
Members of the public can contact the commission with any safeguarding or other concerns about charities via Complain about a charity. -
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God & universe #1 - God's position and authority
by Anders Andersen inwhile thinking about the nature of god, i suddenly thought of something else: how jw speak about god in relation to the universe.. they say that.
jehovah created the universe.
destroying satan and answering the questions that were raised in eden will restore peace and unity in the whole universe.. .
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Mephis
Yeah, it's a good 101 essay introducing where scholarship and archaeology are broadly at. Would obviously be wrong not to mention that fundies of both Christian and Jewish varieties disagree with the interpretation set out there. But then they would, wouldn't they? ;) The human sacrifice aspect seems to crop up elsewhere in the OT, although one is never sure whether it's meant metaphorically or literally - possibly due to the efforts of later scribes wanting to create an artificial distinction.
Linking back to your OP though, that's the bedrock on which JWs are building their view of YHWH. It's literal in a nonsensical fashion. Judaism has built up shades of nuance and meaning to explain it away. Christianity (mainly) handwaves it away by focus on the NT. But JWs are having a full bronze age carnival of stupid, and a lot of the silliness in their doctrine stems from trying to make sense of things which only ever made sense in the bronze age and very early iron age. I'm of an age to remember specific illnesses (eg mental health issues) being linked to just how much you were praying. Satan will get you if you don't keep up your rituals of meeting attendance, study and prayer. etc etc.
Hope that's not too much of a tangent. But that's how I see JWs and how they frame a belief in God etc.
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When is a theory 'just a theory'?
by HB inthe titles of cofty's excellent recent posts are all preceeded by the words "evolution is a fact...".
richard dawkins is encouraging people to use the term 'fact' in relation to evolution, especially when debating with creationists as the word 'theory' is confusing to many, and the latter often takes the discussion off on an often unproductive tangent.
the following may be of interest, it's from the bbc website - part of a regular series of articles called 'the vocabularist', discussing the origin and meaning of words: .
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Mephis
In using definitions, Phizzy's from the National Academy of Sciences are very useful because words sometimes have very specific contextual meanings. Theory in science is one of those times.
I've yet to see anyone dismiss fears about nuclear power or weapons with the reassuring "all that atomic stuff - it's only a theory". No-one seriously rejects the theory of gravity any more (I suppose those who did reject it are long since weeded from the gene pool...). But then neither of those challenge religious beliefs, and the word 'theory' does have the unfortunate ability to be the same one we use for Cousin Bob's ideas about who really was on the grassy knoll.
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God & universe #1 - God's position and authority
by Anders Andersen inwhile thinking about the nature of god, i suddenly thought of something else: how jw speak about god in relation to the universe.. they say that.
jehovah created the universe.
destroying satan and answering the questions that were raised in eden will restore peace and unity in the whole universe.. .
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Mephis
David,
Brilliant that this is not new stuff for you and you got to do it in primary school. Most of us get to do it at university sadly. Big words and things. Although if you think knowing Passover is Pre-Exodus is what it's about, you know a lot less than you think... need to locate an Exodus to have a pre-Exodus. As I said, stories religions tell about their origins. May not find too much of it in the Catholic bibles of the mid-70s though. Perhaps you meant peer reviewed journals of the mid-70s instead? Which you were reading in elementary school, natch.
Would you mind stopping confusing rabbinic Judaism and your understanding (?) of that with the bronze age fudge JWs take their theology from then, as you are ever so educated on this subject? I'm surprised you're confusing the two and it needs to be pointed out to you from how you try to boost yourself :)
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Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister
by cappytan inthis video will be played at one of the clam meetings in march 2016.. the content is kind of old news because it is a recut version of a previous video produced for the elder's school.
however, it's still significant because it shows that the organization still has dissenting brothers in positions of leadership.. my thanks to the leaker.
feel free to claim credit here.
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Mephis
It's genuine Joe. They used it to train elders in how to interact with people with depression.
They do have better articles dealing with depression and mental health issues (July 2009 Awake I think?) but that video is one of the more typical brainless ones where they go back to the normal line of 'read the bible more, pray more, do more for Jehovah - you're still depressed because you're not doing enough'.
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God & universe #1 - God's position and authority
by Anders Andersen inwhile thinking about the nature of god, i suddenly thought of something else: how jw speak about god in relation to the universe.. they say that.
jehovah created the universe.
destroying satan and answering the questions that were raised in eden will restore peace and unity in the whole universe.. .
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Mephis
I was only speaking about what Judaism has to say about itself. I personally have no investment or interest.
Hey David,
I genuinely find it interesting how religions tell stories about their origins. The rabbinic traditions of Judaism, and the interpretation built up on that, are fascinating. But they are a few centuries of development and interpretation away from the basic texts. It shouldn't surprise us that there was a time where JWs were taught that God had a physical location at which he could be invisibly found (the Pleiades according to the WT), because that's a pretty simple step to take if you're reading bronze age texts literally. At one time the Jews also placed God in a physical space they could point to in the sky. God changing the weather to make sure that your new bible version is printed on time? One could only make it more bronze age if one were talking about one's crops.
JW theology is missing some 1800 years of christian theological discussion and some 600 years of Jewish which led into christianity. If it seems overly similar with bronze age conceptions of god and heaven and cosmic forces, then that's the point. It's a religion stripped of subtlety and nuance in such ideas. God is in an invisible heaven with a court of angels because that's what the OT says. And the OT says that because 3000 years ago that's how God was imagined. Satan has to be a divine actor for the same reasons Satan became a divine actor in the first place - God's a bit too much of an unstable tyrant without evil sub-let to another being. A bronze age patriarchal 'theocratic' arrangement has many issues which most other religions are slowly questioning, but JWs are keen to try and push it as acceptable. etc etc. In fact, one of the few things JWs don't do which would be typical of bronze age religion is ritual blood magic. And I'm not sure I can even say they don't do that...
For anyone interested in origins of Judaism and links to Canaanite religion, Noll wrote an overview/101 article on the subject which is well sourced. Obviously believers and the pious will find much to object to within it but it's very mainstream for secular teaching: http://people.brandonu.ca/nollk/canaanite-religion/