Posts by Mephis

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

I know that evidence about WBTS is being heard.

It's immaterial whether they were directly notified or not, as Godard said in her opening statement, but I doubt there would have been much of relevance destroyed between June and December in any case. Who knows though? Have they ever produced notes as evidence for a criminal or civil trial about child safeguarding in Britain? I was amazed that notes were found for ARC, as I know full well that in Britain such notes would long since have been destroyed. As one of the elders at ARC also confirmed happened to his notes.

----

@konceptual - ah thank you, thought you'd posted some. Apologies if not :)

46

My cat died suddenly!

by Fisherman in

jw
friends

i did not realize that they were symptoms that something was wrong with my cat -but i did notice that my cat was breathing a little differently for a period of about a few days.

i also noticed prior and after to that, that on occasion, my cat would cry at the litter box, but that was a very seldom event.. anyway, about a week ago i noticed the symptom that my very loved cat was breathing heavy.

so i called a taxi and i was going to rush him to emergency room for cats.

Mephis

How sad. They can pass away so quickly and suddenly because the symptoms can be so hard to spot, or even aren't there. I'm sorry you've lost such a loved friend Fisherman.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

I think that this is going to be a can of worms, but I'm retired, most days its raining so it could be a useful pursuit.

I was looking at seeing how far I could push it a year or so ago, but my discussions with ICO seemed to highlight a limit in what I personally could do. A subject access request for myself would return little of use, nor anything to trigger further investigation once WBTS had returned the very little they hold on me (personally). Be interesting to see how ICO respond to a more general concern.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

Section 62 through 64 of the branch handbook is their internal data handling policy. It's nothing amazing, but it's on the ARC website as part of the evidence gathered there. Nothing incredibly unusual other than their assertion that they will never destroy data about a person's status as a JW because that's part of their religion to know.

The British specific policy information is contained in letters from 1999/2000. I know I posted a few, and I'm sure konceptual99 (?) posted more too. It gives what the elders actually do retain after notes have been destroyed. It's not a lot. Sure someone can link. My internet keeps dying (BT sucks) or I would repost.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

I was disappointed with Rosenberg's comments. He seemed to have missed the point, and got it wrong re paper records.
- True. There's a lot of confusion on this to be fair, and it's a culty little world of its own. Effectively WBTS are using Data Protection Act as a surrogate for a Clergy privilege not granted under British law (see their argument vs charity commission inquiry currently and compare to First Amendment defences they use in exact same manner in the US). The actual data they do retain is nominal, and of little value - for most things at least. And that's by design in Britain, because otherwise they'd have elders' judicial committee notes being demanded by 'apostates', and that could get tasty even in civil actions let alone if a judge started demanding they produce evidence for criminal cases. It's the WBTS' inherent secrecy which is the issue here, and it's that which has to be broken down if we're going to see them have effective child safeguarding which really should be the aim.

6

Two interesting places in the Bible, Bethel and Megiddo.

by Crazyguy in

first if one looks into the place bethel this is where the king of israel sets up golden calves and tells his people here is your god's go here and to dan to worship.

he didn't want his people going all the way down to jerusalem.

he also made his own priests again to take worship away from jerusalem and it's priests the levites.

Mephis

Bethel. House of God or House of El. What's in a name? ;)

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

As Joshua Rosenburg ( a big hitter in the U.K legal world) pointed out, these guys have not even studied the Data Protection Act that they are trying to hide behind, and seem not to be aware of a later Act that trumps the DPA and makes it a Criminal Offence if Elders have destroyed evidence.

Rosenburg misunderstood the intent. It's the right of the individual to obtain information under the Data Protection Act which is the reason behind the destruction of files/notes etc, not a misguided belief they are obligated to destroy data.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

Letters are here. But no names given for who received.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/news/chair-of-the-inquiry-issues-guidance-on-destruction-of-documents

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

243 institutions received letters. But regardless of receiving a letter, all institutions will be held accountable for destruction or tampering of evidence. Erm. Yeah. They're in trouble. Big trouble. Is the inhouse solicitor in London internally trained then? >_>

Justice Goddard added "No institution – whether they have received a letter or not – can be in any doubt of the extent of their duty to preserve records for the Inquiry, or of the consequences of failing to do so." We [solicitors writing this] would advise institutions to take immediate steps to prevent the destruction of any files or data relating to children in their care or the staff who looked after them, and for the time being to suspend any routine destruction of such files under data protection legislation

http://www.farrer.co.uk/Global/Briefings/Independent%20Inquiry%20into%20Child%20Sexual%20Abuse.pdf

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Mephis

Who was informed of the order? If it was IBSA House, then it's on IBSA House.

Keep in mind too that the period is from the order (June?) until December. So that's the period. There is unlikely to be a great deal of incriminating evidence. But it does draw attention to their desire to remove all evidence or not provide as much help as they could do. As does the longstanding annual rite of burning all notes, the consistent refusal to assist criminal investigations, the current battle with the Charity Commission, etc.