after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
In my post above adding responsibility would not have made a difference - but it would have made a helluva difference to MB, he would have avoided death.
Still to be answered: do you agree that during the time it takes for this great societal change to happen, responsibility, hard work and education must be stressed for disadvantaged black people (and disadvantaged people of any other colour) as a way for self-improvement?
Yes or no.
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
breakfast of champions - your last post is a good summary of the way this debate is panning out.
I can't help but remember a scene from The Simpsons. Homer and Marge are having problems with their sex life - Marge wants Homer to make more of an effort in the bedroom. Homer reals off a list of societal problems in the US and finishes with '... and as soon as all these problems are sorted, we'll have sex', thinking that he's given Marge an acceptable answer.
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
Stressing just hard work is not the answer - misrepresented. I said hard work and responsibility, and had education in mind but forgot to type this out.
One more time, do you agree that during the time it takes for this great societal change to happen, responsibility, hard work and education must be stressed for disadvantaged black people (and disadvantaged people of any other colour) as a way for self-improvement?
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
Pacopoolio - ok fair enough your alley example was good.
'Regarding football - the issue there is that you don't cure racism by doing that, you just remove it from the public' - that's as good as it gets, I'm afraid. It must be the case that in the privacy of their own homes, people say racist things - white against black and vice versa.
I also notice that you seem strangely reluctant to answer this: Do you agree that during the time it takes for this great societal change to happen, responsibility and hard work must be stressed for disadvantaged black people (and disadvantaged people of any other colour) as a way for self-improvement?
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
depending on the instance (if someone is raped or robbed, you don't say "shouldn't have walked down that alley" to the person) - very poor example. Walking down any alley is within the law and is therefore anybody's right to do so, unlike racially abusing soccer players or disobeying cops' orders (both illegal).
Do you agree that during the time it takes for this great societal change to happen, responsibility and hard work must be stressed for disadvantaged black people (and disadvantaged people of any other colour) as a way for self-improvement?
So to combat that, you would try to change those surrpunding influences en masse. There are a lot of ways to do this - although living standards have risen steadily in England the only thing that did change was English football's zero racism policy, 'kick racism out of football'. Racist behaviour can lead to lifetime bans from football grounds. The surrounding influences were hardly ever mentioned, let alone changed. But the zero policy on racism has largely worked - although not 100% perfect (nothing ever is) English football grounds are just about the least racist in europe. How do you feel about this? Was the harsh zero racism policy the wrong approach?
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
Excellent post shanagirl - particularly your first paragraph. Your honesty is refreshing. The more black people have attitudes similar to yours the better.
There is absolutely nothing in common between the killing of MB and the racist murder of Emmett Till.
@pacopoolio - I agree that large scale societal change involves much more than the half-baked drivel I've been posting, but then I'm ignorant of Sociology and other thoroughly worthwhile degree subjects.
Surely you must admit that as aplan for societal change is developed and enacted, responsibility and hard work must be stressed as a way to escape poverty.
It was MBs fault on an individual level - he chose to rob a store, verbally abuse a cop, ignore instructions, try to take the cop's gun and charge the cop.
I would like to give you a test case, for you to apply your sociology skills.
In the UK in the 70s and 80s, racism was a big problem in football (soccer) grounds. Virtually every team had hardcore fans that would racially abuse referees, linesman, opposing players, even their own team's players if they performed badly. Sadly, monkey chants and throwing bananas onto the pitch were regular occurrances.
At what level was it the racists' fault and how would you, as a sociologist, go about reforming 80s football fans?
As far as I can see each racist fan was individually responsible for his own conduct - whether other factors influenced him like poverty, unhappy home life, limited education, low wages, unemployment, etc. cannot be used as an excuse.
What say you?
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
Pacopoolio - a black guy from a disadvantaged background can say 'sod this!' and do really well for himself. An alcoholic can choose not to drink alcohol; a paedophile can choose not to abuse children.
Let's be brutally honest here - it was MBs fault that he got shot, and unfortunately, died. If he couldn't be bothered with education, that was also his fault. Had he been white it would still have been his fault. - do you agree with this rather harsh conclusion or not?
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
Pacopoolio - I suppose these things are relative. Malnourishment by Western standards must be an all-you-can-eat buffet for people living in places like Ethiopia or Somalia during a drought.
I'm sorry, but I can't help but see your last two posts as a reasonably good attempt to muddy the waters and deny personal responsibility. If that's the kind of thing that's taught in sociology classes then it does indeed seem pointless.
Let's be brutally honest here - it was MBs fault that he got shot, and unfortunately, died. If he couldn't be bothered with education, that was also his fault. Had he been white it would still have been his fault.
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
Pacopoolio - ok, good post. My previous post was semi-serious and semi-coherent at best.
The point I was trying to make was that denying people agency, personal responsibility as you and others seem to do is counter-productive and doesn't help disadvantaged black people in the long run.
As you can probably tell, the subject I'm studying isn't sociology or some other pointless couse.
after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.
let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .
Pacopoolio - are things such as bad diets really such important factors in all this?
I'm a student and therefore eat student food - it's all beans on toast, tinned tomatoes and 18p packets of noodles. Does this crap diet give me licence to swagger around like a bad-ass black dude, and b1tch-slap a punk-ass cop if I'm in a bad mood?
I suppose rich, upper class people, thanks to their comfortable homes, superior diet, polite manners, clean clothes and toothbrushes rarely experience depression and failure.
