Jehovah's Witnesses insist that all their members must regularly engage in their work of preaching and disciple making. However, the Bible says that God gave only "some as evangelists" and only "some as teachers." (Eph. 4:11) Though all true Christians are certainly moved to share their faith with others when the opportunity arises, the teaching that all Christians are required by God to regularly serve as door-to-door preachers contradicts the scriptures.
aChristian
JoinedPosts by aChristian
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9
Is Preaching Mandatory in Order to be a Christian?
by Preston inever since i've stopped associating with jehovah's witnesses i can almost assure you that the first thing to go was my regular ministry involving going door-to-door, calling up people who live in gated communities, doing business territory, and writing letters.
i will say the primary reason why i did it was because i wanted to make god happy.
i actually received a measure of joy at the end of the day after going through the difficulty of mustering up enough courage to engage in a public ministry.
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When Revelation Turns Obsolete
by metatron inone of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
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aChristian
Faithful,
You are right. ISP made a very good point. A point also made quite clearly by Susan Foh in her 1979 book, Women and the Word of God.
Blue,
I'm glad I could help. When I first read commentaries to this effect my faith in the Bible was helped quite a bit. I also knew that since the Watchtower has failed to understand this, while many in "Christendom" have, the Society cannot possibly be what they claim to be. The Watchtower now treats women in the exact same way the Judaizers who fought Paul did 1,950 years ago.
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How "free" is free will?
by Mr Ben in(slightly paraphrased from genesis).
1. you have the freedom to use your life to obey me or disobey me.. 2. but if you choose the latter, i will take away your life (and therefore the ability to choose).. how free is biblical free will really?.
religion n.. an organisation designed to promote atheism.
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aChristian
The Watchtower's take on Adam and Eve makes no sense. For any "God" would certainly know the outcome of the "test" Genesis tells us He gave to Adam and Eve. Heck, any dope could have guessed how things would turn out.
God told Adam that if he ate some fruit he would die. God then put Adam alone in that garden for how long? Then God gave him a beautiful naked woman as his new best friend, "helper" and lover. Now this gorgeous babe tells Adam she thinks they should eat the forbidden fruit. Besides, she tells him, she's heard that if they do they wont really die at all.
God didn't need to see into the future to figure out what Adam was going to do under those circumstances. Anyone could have guessed who Adam was going to care most about pleasing? After sleeping with squirrels for what JWs tell us was quite a few years, what man wouldn't have risked his life to make sure he didn't lose that lady's love and affection? Even if God then "chose not to" look into the future, as JWs say, the God who created man would have had to have had a very poor knowledge of His own creation not to have known that Adam was certainly going to fail that "test."
The only way the story of Adam and Eve makes sense is to understand that God not only knew how things were going to end up in Eden, but that He deliberately set the whole thing up to make a point. What point? This one. If Adam in paradise, without a problem in the world, could not manage to obey one simple command from God, what chance does any human being have of living their entire trouble-plagued life without sinning either in word, thought or deed? No chance at all. That is the lesson that was illustrated in Eden. Human beings have a sinful nature. A nature which God gave us.
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When Revelation Turns Obsolete
by metatron inone of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
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aChristian
Will,
:I liked the alternate look at paul's words, well thought out and highly possible!
Thanks. But this line of thought is by no means mine alone. Most of what I wrote closely reflects the thinking of several published Christian authors. For a more thorough treatment of the subject you may want to read, "Who said Women Can't Teach?" by Charles Trombley (1985), or a few other books I can suggest on the subject.
: Wasn't there an Awake article posted not too long ago citing the real poop on women? Its the fact that the circumference of a woman's skull ergo her brain is smaller as well as those wicked 2 days each month.
Yup. The WTS did indeed publish just such an article several years back. With brilliant writing such as that, how can anyone ever doubt they are God's channel?
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40
When Revelation Turns Obsolete
by metatron inone of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
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aChristian
Sean,
You wrote: I'm wondering though how God intends to save people who have no exposure to his written "Word," the Bible.
As you know, Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me," (John 14:6) and "This is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3) God's requirement that everyone must accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior in order to gain eternal life is revealed only in the Bible. Thus I understand your concern for those who have had no exposure to the Bible. How can such people ever gain salvation?
The Bible does not clearly answer this question. So, all Christians can do is offer you their own thoughts. Here are mine:
Your question actually deals with two types of people who have not heard or read the Bible's good news of Jesus Christ. Those who will be living when Christ returns to judge this world and those who have already died. I'll first give you my guess on those who will be living at Christ's return. I think your concerns here may partly spring from the Watchtower Society's teachings (and those of other sects) that God will soon kill everyone on earth except true Christians. Fortunately, the Bible does not teach that. I believe that when Christ returns He will judge only the Christian world. As you may know, two-thirds of the earth's population has never even heard the good news of Jesus Christ, including billions of people in lands like China and India. Though many Bible believers believe that God will soon kill all of these people, I think they are wrong. This does not sound like the God of love, justice and mercy I worship.
One thing that leads me to believe this is an incorrect understanding of scripture is that that the Bible tells us that "Judgment begins with the house of God." (1 Peter 4:17) Jesus also said those who will rule as kings with Him will "judge the 12 tribes of Israel." (Luke 22:30) To me this indicates that when Christ returns and draws all true Christians to Himself (Matt. 24:31), they will then determine who among those who have heard the good news of Jesus Christ and not taken it to heart are deserving of death. "The 12 tribes of Israel," spoken of in Luke 22:30, I believe refers to all those who have heard the good news preached by those whom Galatians 6:16 calls "the Israel of God." Remember, the literal "12 tribes of Israel" had all heard the Law of Moses, but few had taken it to heart.
Remember too that it was only the city of Jerusalem that was destroyed in 70 AD, not the entire Roman empire, after those in Jerusalem who heeded Christ's words of warning had escaped. And First Century Jerusalem has long been understood to picture the Christian world, or as Jehovah's Witnesses call it, "Christendom."
Also to be considered is a fact known by most serious students of the Bible, history and science. The flood of Noah's day was a local event, not a global one. God brought that judgment only upon a land that had heard the message of "Noah, a preacher of righteousness," and failed to respond to it. (2 Pet. 2:5) God did not take the lives of those in other parts of then widely populated earth who had not heard Noah's preaching.
Interestingly, Revelation chapters 8 and 9 talk quite a bit about "a third of the world"
being judged. And by population, the part of the world claiming Christianity as its religion is almost exactly one-third. (See The World Almanac 1998, page 654)If this understanding is correct, that Christ is returning to judge only the Christian world, then Christians, who all have the same "one hope" (Eph.4:4), will then have plenty of people to rule over as they serve as kings with Christ for 1,000 years. And they will also then have plenty of people to help come to know the true God as they serve as His "priests." For that is, after all, what priests do.
Now, so far as the resurrection of those who never heard or read of the Bible's story of Jesus Christ, my thoughts on this are these:
As you know, Jesus said, "A time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out - those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned." (John 5:28,29) But the Bible also seems to clearly indicate that the resurrection of all mankind will occur in two stages. It tells us that, "the dead in Christ will rise first." (1Thes. 4:16) It calls this resurrection, "the first resurrection," and it tells us that "the rest of the dead will not come to life until the thousand years [of Christ's millennial reign] have ended." (Rev. 20:5)
These things being so, I tend to believe that the resurrection of all who did not know and serve the God of the Bible during their lives will not be resurrected until the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign. However, I find it interesting that when the apostle Paul was discussing the future of nonbelievers he spoke of, "the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ." (Rom.2:16) With these words of his in mind, I think it is quite possible that God will judge all men's hearts knowing, as only God can know, how they would have responded to the good news of Jesus Christ, if they had heard it during their lifetime.
I am, of course, not sure if all of my present understandings are correct. I am sure, however, that no matter when and how God resurrects nonbelievers, and no matter when and how He judges them, His ways of doing so will be both fair and merciful.
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When Revelation Turns Obsolete
by metatron inone of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
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aChristian
Faithful2Jah,
Thank you for your support. : )
Marilyn,
So, far as "special insight" goes, I don't believe anyone has any. However, I do believe that the scriptures clearly indicate that God's word was deliberately written in such a way that it would not be easily understood by all.
"The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that though seeing they may not see and though hearing they may not understand." (Luke 8:10; See also Mt. 13:10-15.)
"At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, 'I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.' " (Luke 10:21; See also Paul's words in 1 Cor.1:19-29.)I believe God gives His Holy Spirit to all who earnestly seek His help in understanding His word. (Luke 11:13; 14:25,26; 1 John 2:27) Not so that all who are called by Him will be able to fully understand all of His word, but so that all who are called by Him will be able to understand enough of it to be able to put their faith in Christ. To me to believe that God gives all who earnestly seek Him all the "special insight" they need is hardly comparable to the Watchtower's claims of "special insight."
Ab,
Thanks for your kind words.
You wrote: My belief is that if there were a god like that spoken of in the Bible, its existence would be provable.
I believe the same. I believe God has always given all those who earnestly seek Him all the proof they need to put their faith in Christ. I do not, however, believe that God now provides mankind with so much proof that we would all be forced to acknowledge God's existence right now. I believe that would defeat God's own stated purpose. For the Bible indicates that God has chosen to save that time for Judgment Day.
I think you are right in wanting proof. I know I did. After my bad WT experience I was a real skeptic. Then God provided me with all the proof I needed. However, what was proof for me may not be for you. I think if your heart is in the right place and you are willing to believe in God, He will provide you with all the proof you need of His existence. Of course, some people require more proof than others. Case in point, the O.J. jury. They did not think the prosecution provided them with enough proof. But were they willing to believe?
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40
When Revelation Turns Obsolete
by metatron inone of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
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aChristian
Siegswife,
Thanks for the kind words. Man, I needed them. I was being eaten alive in here. Seems like on this board exJWs are not allowed to keep their faith in God when they lose their faith in the Watchtower.
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40
When Revelation Turns Obsolete
by metatron inone of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
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aChristian
Seaken,
You wrote: You think you have to be so full of understanding and that you can, by logic, convince the infidels of the truth found in the word of god.
Nope. I just thought some here might be interested in knowing that there is another way of understanding Paul's writings than the sexist way presented by the one who started this thread. I found that viewpoint quite interesting when I first read it in a few Bible commentaries and I thought some others here, who have not yet read such commentaries, may find it interesting also.
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When Revelation Turns Obsolete
by metatron inone of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
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aChristian
: The only personal God worth believing in would communicate directly
with each human, telling them what is personally necessary.Let me see if I understand you correctly. You are saying that even if Jesus was who the Bible says he was, and even if the Bible was truly inspired by God, it would make little difference to you. Because you feel that even if the God who created our universe did send His only begotten Son to us, and even if He did send His own thoughts to us by inspiring the writings of some 40 men over a period of some 1,600 years, it was not a good enough form of communication. For you feel that any God worthy of worship would have to personally appear before each and every human being who has ever lived and would have to then personally reveal His complete will to each of us.
That is an interesting opinion. However, the Bible tells us that none of us is worthy to personally appear before the God who created our universe, at least not without Jesus Christ by our side taking the blame for all of our unrighteousness. Myself, I am overwhelmed by the great love, generosity and humility of a God who was not only willing to communicate with us in written form, but was also willing to personally reveal Himself to us at one point in history in the person of His only begotten Son. (John 14:9)
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40
When Revelation Turns Obsolete
by metatron inone of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
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aChristian
: The only personal God worth believing in would communicate directly with each human, telling them what is personally necessary.
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)