Posts by aChristian

7

The Name of Jehovah or/and the Name of Jesus

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

in an effort to bolster the name of jehovah, the watchtower book entitled "revelation its grand.

climax at hand!

if you want to know who the father is, look at jesus.

aChristian

The name "Jehovah's Witnesses" was taken from God's words to Israel recorded in Isaiah 43:10. For a Christian group to take on such a name clearly conflicts with the teachings of scripture. First, as mentioned, the words spoken by God recorded in Isaiah 43:10 were spoken to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. The Bible tells us that Christians are to be witnesses of Jesus just as the Jews were witnesses of Jehovah. Jesus said, "You will be witnesses of me." (Acts 1:8) And the Bible tells us that it was "by divine providence," by God's own direction, that His people in the post-Jewish age would be known by the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 11:26 NWT) Thus, instructing Christians to identify themselves by the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" clearly conflicts with the teachings of scripture.

The fact of the matter is, the Watchtower Society's use of the name "Jehovah" is not scriptural. They have added the name "Jehovah" many times to the text of the New Testament even though they admit that, "…no early surviving Greek manuscript of the ‘New Testament’ contains the personal name of God." ( The Watchtower March 1, 1991 p. 28 ) The Watchtower Society has said that they believe that the writers of the New Testament used the divine name in their original writings but that their original writings were later corrupted. However this contradicts what the Society itself has said. The Society tells us that, "Jehovah God has seen to it that his Word has been protected not only from mistakes copyists made but also from attempts of others to make additions to it. The Bible itself contains God’s promise that his Word would be kept in a pure form for us today." ( You Can Live For Ever in Paradise on Earth, 1982 p. 53 ) So, Jehovah's Witnesses had no business inserting the name Jehovah into the New Testament portions of their New World Translations when that name is not found in any early surviving Greek manuscript of the New Testament.

Historians tell us that the personal name of God, as used in the Old Testament, was not used in either its written or spoken form for many years before the time of Christ. Because the Jews were afraid overuse of the divine name might amount to "taking the name of the Lord in vain," they actually forbid its use altogether. I believe God allowed this to happen in order to make way for the time which was coming, the time when He wanted the name of Jesus to be promoted above every name. (Phil. 2:9)

Jehovah's Witnesses do not do this. Their putting the name Jehovah into the New Testament portions of their New World Translations and promoting that name above every name, rather than the name of Jesus as the Bible says Christians should be doing, is one of many things which show that Jehovah's Witnesses are not really Christians.

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

Flip,

I wrote: Judging from all the past success people have had in predicting the time of Christ's return, I think that is one topic of discussion that Christians should wisely avoid.

You responded: Why should 'Christians' wisely avoid an amusing pastime? ... the WTBTS has been inferring predictions for years and, unless you're extremely rich, they're doing much better financially than yourself.

You are kidding, I hope. Do you realize how many lives the Watchtower Society has ruined with all of their false predictions? Sure they have made a lot of money doing it. But someone who is willing to destroy lives to make money might as well sell drugs to school kids.

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

Faithful,

Judging from all the past success people have had in predicting the time of Christ's return, I think that is one topic of discussion that Christians should wisely avoid.

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

Name,

Earlier you apparently criticized my position that the Bible speaks of a local flood without having read what I had asked you to read on that subject. Now, you criticize the quality of the evidence that I have presented which I believe proves that the God of the Bible, and no other god but Him, created our universe. However your criticisms do not in any way reference the content of the evidence I presented. So, I'm curious, in this case have you read what you criticize?

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

IW,

You wrote: I would though like to hear your thoughts on why Luke chose to place parts of parallel illustrations to Matthew 24, in Luke 17 instead of Luke 21 ... and on Matthew 24 and Luke 21 in general.

It is possible that Luke related some of Jesus' words out of the actual chronological order in which He spoke them. It is also possible that Jesus spoke the same exact words, or very similar words, on more than one occasion. Have you ever listened to a political candidate give a stump speech at a whistle stop? Of course, you know they give that same speech at every stop. Jesus preached to His disciples and to various crowds of people for several hours every day for three and a half years. He probably repeated several of the same speeches many times over.

I believe that in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 Jesus was primarily telling His disciples of things which would take place before the end of the Jewish nation. As you know its capital city, Jerusalem, was destroyed by the Romans in AD 70. In Matt. 24:1,2 and in Luke 21:5,6 we can clearly see that Jesus was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem to come when His disciples asked Him, "When will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?" (Luke 21:7) I believe Matthew records additional questions which they also asked. "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" (Matt. 24:3)

Clearly the various so-called "signs" that we are living close to the time of Christ's return, such as "wars" and "earthquakes" were not meant to be understood as any such thing. Jesus, in fact, said just the opposite. He told his disciples not to understand such things as signs of anything. He said, "When you hear of wars and revolutions do not be frightened. These things must happen first. But the end will not come right away." (Luke 21:9)

In Matthew 24 and Luke 21 (and Mark 13) Jesus was answering several different questions, most of which dealt exclusively with the destruction of the Jewish nation to come which He had just predicted. However, I believe some of the questions Jesus was asked, and some of the answers He gave to those questions referred, at least in part, to events that are yet to come upon the earth.

There are Christians who do not believe in a literal return of Christ. They believe we all personally experience Christ's return when we meet the Lord on Judgment Day. They say that all of Jesus words in Matt. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 referred to events which entirely took place before Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70. This school of thought is called "Preterism" and its adherents are called "Preterists." Some call those like me, who understand that most of Jesus' words in the passages we have just discussed referred to events in the first century, "partial Preterists."

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

In this thread I have presented what I consider to be very strong evidence that the God of the Bible created our universe, a God we know today by the name "Jesus Christ." According to the Bible Jesus Christ promised to return. Now, if you can present me with convincing evidence that "the Muslum god" "Or Buhda, etc" created our universe, and then show me where he promised to return, I will be glad to consider it.

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

Plum,

You wrote: [The Bible says] "This good news of the Kingdom will be preached through out all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations AND THEN the end will come." ... So before the end will come, everyone must here the word of God.

First of all, I don't even think JWs teach that. When asked how the end could possibly come soon since billions of people in lands like China and India have never heard the JW good news they use words like "community responsibility" to explain why it may not be necessary for every individual to hear their preaching.

You may also want to read the context of Christ's words. In verse 14 we find that He said what you quoted Him as saying. However, His words which immediately followed, those recorded in verses 15 and 16, make it clear He was actually referring to a work which would be done prior to the time Rome destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70. Christ's words in context are these: 14: "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15: So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- 16: then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Paul makes it clear in Col. 1:23 that he considered Christ's words spoken in Matt. 24:14 to have already been fulfilled in his day. (Colossians was written before Jerusalem's destruction.) To the Colossians Paul wrote, "This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven." Now we know that at the time Paul wrote those words the good news of Jesus Christ had not yet been preached in "inhabited" places such as North America and Austraila. So, Paul must have understood Jesus' prophecy of a worldwide preaching work, and his words describing the completion of such a work, to refer to a work that had been done in "all the nations" then known to Christ's apostles to whom He spoke the words recorded in Mathew 24:14.

With such things in mind we have no reason to believe that it is biblically required that everyone on earth must hear the good news of Jesus Christ before He returns. If this understanding is correct, that Christ is returning to judge only the Christian world, then Christians, who all have the same "one hope," will then have plenty of people to rule over as they serve as kings with Christ for 1,000 years. And they will also then have plenty of people to help come to know the true God as they serve as His "priests." For that is, after all, what priests do.

The Bible does not tell us exactly what will happen in the future. Because it does not, the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses and my beliefs on this subject matter, which I have just presented, can only be considered speculation. However, I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses should be made aware that there are other ways to understand God's clearly stated intentions to have the meek inherit the earth (Ps. 37:11), and His intentions to have all Christians rule with Christ for 1,000 years, than to change the good news preached by the apostles which offered the same "one hope" to all Christians. (Eph.4:4-6; Gal.1:8,9)

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

2,

You wrote: That IS what the bible describes - a flood that wipes out the 'entire earth'. All people and animals. It's pretty cut 'n dry.

It's hardly cut 'n dry. If you had read the information I had asked you to read you would have seen that the Hebrew word usually translated as "earth" in the Genesis flood account, giving most readers the idea that our whole planet was flooded, is much more often translated as "land" elsewhere in the Old Testament. As in "the land of Canaan" and "the land of Nod." With this fact in mind, the translators of the New American Standard Bible have translated this Hebrew word several times as "land" rather than "earth" in the Genesis flood account. When we substitute the word "land" for "earth" in the Genesis flood account we begin to see that the Bible is really describing a flood which destroyed all life in the land of Noah.

I hope that before arguing this point further that you will read the material I directed you to. I also hope you have not made your other judgments in the same way, before thoroughly considering all the relevant information available to you.

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

IW,

Even though we will never agree on Paul. : )

120

Quality of this Forum

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

aChristian

2,

You wrote: Noah's flood = local. That's NOT what the bible says.

I guess you meant to say, "That's not what I understand the Bible to say." For, as you pointed out, "You read it and get one thing, I read it and get something else."

For a thorough discussion of the issue of whether or not the Bible could be describing a local flood, you can go to the thread entitled "space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 BC" located here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17590&site=3 On page 2, 4th post down from the top, I present a case for the Bible describing a local flood. This subject matter is discussed on and off throughout the thread.