I have a feeling I should not have mentioned the names of any of my recent "well wishers." Some of the ones I mentioned will probably be mad at me for mentioning them. Some of the ones I failed to mention will probably feel slighted that I didn't mention them.
aChristian
JoinedPosts by aChristian
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63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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aChristian
Faithful,
You wrote: Sometimes I wonder why you bother with these guys. : (
Believe it or not, every once in a while I see signs of a heart open to God even in Joseph.
But mainly I hang in here for others on the board. As you know, my E mail is always open. Besides what you have sent me I have received E mails from several other people here. Some of them tell me that they always read my posts. Some say they seldom get involved with "deep" discussions because they lack confidence in their own understandings or writing abilities. They have encouraged me to "Keep up the fine fight for the faith" on their behalf. I have received many positive comments and encouraging E mails from D. Wiltshire, SadieJive, OutaService, Island Woman and several other people here, a couple who are pretty well known who may not want people knowing that they are "starting to come around." I do it mainly for them.
Oh, and as I have told you before, I appreciate your help. Hang in there, bro. Our King is coming.
Mike
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63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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aChristian
Joseph wrote: [You claim God] doesn't want love from men who have no choice but to love him. ... However, what about after God gives man eternal life? You say that this happens when [man is made] incorruptible. ... it will no longer be possible for the man living for eternity to show a natural love to God, according to you ... [for] the now incorruptible man will no longer be able to choose not to love God. ... Since this is exactly the kind of love you say God does not want, it makes no sense for God to grant men eternal life if it means making them incorruptible, for then there would be men living for eternity who could never love God the way he wants to be loved.
Good questions, Joseph.
The answers can be found by understanding why Christians are called "The bride of Christ."
Before a woman becomes a man's bride she is free to either give her love to him or to any other man. However, once she freely falls in love with a man, and freely decides she wants to spend the rest of her life with him, and freely consents to become his bride, and then freely makes legal vows to love, honor and cherish only him, and freely makes a legal vow to be completely faithful to him, she then willingly gives up the freedom she previously had to give her love to another man.
When Christians freely consent to become part of "The bride of Christ," and freely make vows to faithfully serve Him forever, they then willingly give up the freedom they previously had to give their love to another god. After they do so, God will grant them the ability to eternally maintain their faithfulness to Him. This ability is called "incorruptibility." He will then also grant them the ability to live forever. This ability is called "immortality." (1Cor. 15)
By God not creating people incorruptible to begin with, He allowed us all the freedom to decide for ourselves who we will give our love to. To those who freely decide that they want to give their love to Him, and who freely decide that they want to do so forever, God will give the ability to do what they have already freely decided that they want to do.
That's a very big difference than God forcing or programming everyone to love and serve Him from the start of their lives.
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63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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aChristian
Gweedo,
You wrote: So long as they didn't eat of a certain tree they would have been allowed to live forever. They were initially granted eternal life ...
You read the story a bit differently than I do. Apparently, because you understand the words "eternal life" differently than I do. You read the story of Adam and Eve as saying "eternal life" was something Adam and Eve already had, and would continue to have so long as they stayed away from that tree.
I read it as saying that "eternal life" was a gift God said He would give to Adam and Eve if they stayed away from that tree for a predetermined, but unmentioned, period of time. If they had managed to do so, God would have then allowed them to eat from the tree of life. Doing so would have then made them immortal, something they obviously were not, since we know they both later died.
The difference in the way we understand the story comes from the different ways we understand the words "eternal life." As a former JW and a nonChristian, you still have the JW understanding of "eternal life." JWs say that in the new world, even after the 1000 years have ended, some people who have been given "eternal life" might still sin, and when they do God will then ZAP them. This kind of "eternal life" does not sound very "eternal" to me.
As a Christian, I have the Christian view of eternal life. "Eternal life" to Christians means "immortality." (1 Cor. 15) Having "immortality" means a person possesses within themself the ability to live forever. Adam and Eve were able to die and so obviously they were never given "eternal life" by God as Christians understand it, immortality.
You wrote: There is a big difference between the little bit of suffering I would allow my kids to endure and what God allows.
So you admit that you would allow your children to suffer for a while in order to learn valuable lessons or to achieve a greater good. Let's say, for instance, they had to undergo a long painful surgical procedure in order to avoid much longer and much greater pain later on in their life. Then you would most likely allow them to suffer for hours, or days, or weeks, or maybe even months. But if God, with our eternities in His view, for very similar reasons, allows some of us to suffer for similar or, in some cases, slightly longer periods of time you condemn Him for doing so.
The fact is, someone who didn't know and understand why you were allowing your child to undergo a very long and very painful surgical procedure might also question your love and compassion. In the same way that you now question God's.
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63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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aChristian
Crownboy,
You wrote: Death is not the default state of man, according to the bible, everlasting life is the default state
I disagree. But I guess I'll have to do so later.
Maybe that's just as well. For you seem quite firm in your beliefs and quite happy with them. I think since that is the case I'll have to let your comments stand. Especially since the wife says its now past my bedtime. And since I'm going to be quite busy the next few days.
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63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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aChristian
Gweedo,
You wrote: So if I dont believe this [Jesus was and is God], I'm not a Christian?
No, you are not.
You wrote: I know heaps of Christians who dont believe the above...I was one.
I know of none. I know of a lot of cult members who presently have a relationship with men and not with God, who falsely identify themselves as Christians, who don't believe Jesus was and is God. I was one.
You wrote: And yet no man has seen God. But people saw Jesus.
Christians believe that when Jesus was on earth he was both fully man and fully God. At that time people saw Jesus the man. However, this does not prove that Jesus was not then also God.
Water can exist as both ice and steam. But it cannot exist in both forms simultaneously. However, water is physical. God is spiritual. God created physical laws for the benefit of physical objects and physical beings. Because He did, and because He is not a physical being, He was, at the time Christ walked this earth, not subject to our physical laws. Thus, unlike water which can exist in more than one form but not simultaneously, God was then able to be both fully God and fully man simultaneously. Impossible you say? For man, yes. For God, no. For what seems impossible to man is not impossible to God. For with God all things are possible.
You wrote: eeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ***headache***need****asprin****
You would think a divine perfect being could have written a book that was a little more clear, and a little less contradictory.I hear that Dr. Michael Debakey, the famous heart surgeon, is a very smart man and that he knows a lot about human anatomy. That being the case, he should have no trouble explaining it all to an ant. And since Debakey is so smart and knows so much about human anatomy, and would thus be able to teach it quite well, the ant should have no trouble fully understanding all Debakey explains to it on the subject matter.
Substitute God for Debakey, God's nature for human anatomy and us for the ant.
Do I really have to provide "proof texts" for the fact that the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ was and is God? Forget about the fact that John 1:1 clearly says so in all non-JW Bibles. Isaiah 9:6 prophesied that Jesus would "be called Mighty God" by his followers. That's God with an upper case G even in JW Bibles. Why? Because the Hebrew demands it. Know any JWs who "call" Jesus their "God"? I don't. But Christians do. Thomas did. He called Jesus "My Lord and my God." (John 20:28) Jesus said that we are to "Worship God alone." (Matt. 4:10; Luke 4:8) Yet Jesus accepted "worship" - the same Greek word - numerous times. (Matt. 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38) Of course, the JW Bible translates the Greek word for "worship" - the same one Jesus used when he said that we should "worship" God alone - as "obeisance" whenever it is used in reference to Jesus and as "worship" whenever it is used in reference to God. Tricky.
You know I could go on and on with this. But I doubt you really want me to.
I hope all is well with you.
Mike -
63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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aChristian
Gweedo,
Your comments do not involve the Trinity doctrine. They do, however, involve the deity of Christ. All Christians accept the doctrine of the deity of Christ, meaning that regardless of how they may feel about the Trinity doctrine, they understand that Jesus was far more than a mere man, and far more than "a perfect man" or "Adam's equal" as JWs call Him. All Christians understand that Jesus was God. And the Bible tells us that God is "incorruptible."
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63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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aChristian
Joseph,
Why any Christian ever bothers to discuss theology with you I don't know. If we say "black" you will surely say "white."
I say God made us free so that our love for Him and for others could be true love, being neither forced nor programmed. You say such love from free people who are capable of disobeying God is imperfect love, because you say it is tainted by the evil all free people sometimes do. On the other hand, if God made us all "incorruptible," incapable of disobeying Him, you would surely say that the "love" we then showed for God and others was not real love at all, since we had no choice in showing it.
So Joseph, because you are capable of doing evil, does that mean that the love you have for your wife, your kids and for others is not real love?
In the future, I will try to remember not to waste my time talking to people who argue against anything said by anyone calling themselves "Christian."
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Timeless Truths in the Bible
by JosephAlward insome of my favorites are:.
"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.
all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.
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aChristian
Clash,
I enjoyed reading the article on canonicity. Thank you for posting it.
Mike
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63
Does Knowledge of Evil Condemn Us?
by JosephAlward inordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
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aChristian
: Which is it? Does one become less righteous when one knows evil, or not? Can God know evil and be righteous, but if man knows it he's not righteous? If so, why? Where in the Bible does it say this?
When a corruptible person gains a mere intellectual knowledge of evil he is immediately corrupted by it. For he then immediately considers the possibility of acting in an evil way. And, as Faithful pointed out, Jesus clearly indicated in Matthew 5:28 that merely thinking of committing an evil act is itself an evil act. Thus a mere intellectual knowledge of evil can and does corrupt us.
However, because God is incorruptible, He is able to possess an intellectual knowledge of evil and never consider, even for one brief fleeting moment, acting in an evil way.
We are corruptible. God is incorruptible. Thus we are less righteous than God. Because we are, and because "all unrighteousness is sin" (1 John 5:17), we all "fall short of the glory of God." (Rom. 3:23) Because we do we are all undeserving of eternal life. However, because God made us the way that we are, and because Jesus Christ paid the penalty for all of our sins, God gladly overlooks our unrighteousness and considers us to be "righteous ones" who are worthy of eternal life.
All God asks of us is that we accept what He has done for us. Will you?