Gweedo,
You wrote: They were already permited to eat of ALL the trees except one, that includes the tree of life which the bible clearly tells us gave Adam and eve eternal life.
That is not necessarily the case. As we have discussed before in relation to the words "all" and "every" used in the Genesis flood account, these words in Hebrew are not all encompassing as they are in English. Hebrew lexicons tell us that they may also be properly translated as "many" and as "a variety of." This being so, it is quite possible that, though it is not mentioned in the text, God reserved the priviledge of eating from the tree of life until after Adam and Eve had passed their test. I believe that being given the right to eat from the tree of life was then and always has been a reward that is only given to someone after they successfully pass a test. I believe this is indicated by what Jesus said in Rev. 2:7. There he said, "To him who overcomes I will give the right to eat from the tree of life which is in the paradise of God."
But even if your understanding is correct, that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life right along before they disobeyed God, I don't see that it changes things in this discussion. For eternal life was still not "the default state of man" as you put it. Dying was. For even according to you, Adam and Eve's being able to live "forever" was entirely dependent upon their eating from one particular tree. If they failed to eat from it on a regular basis they would die. If I need to take one particular medicine everyday or I will die, is eternal life my "default state"? I don't think so.
Your understanding does not differ significantly from mine. In effect you and I are both saying that God gave Adam and Eve a mortal nature along with the promise that they would never die if they passed a test. That being the case, I don't see that it really makes any difference to this discussion whether or not they were allowed to eat from the tree of life right along or if they were only given the right to eat from it after they passed their test.
You wrote: To live forever was something Adam and Eve were already permited.
But they didn't live forever. So I guess that makes God an "Indian giver." Whatever. I have no idea why I am arguing this with you. You think it is all total fiction anyway. You don't even believe, as some people do, that it is a divinely inspired parable containing very valuable lessons.
You wrote: Like I said, what I would allow my kids to suffer in no way compares to what God has allowed. If i had the power to erradicate disease, I'd do it in an instant. God on the other hand allows it...even creates it. ... God is cruel in the extreme. ... Seriously, what lesson is God trying to teach us. What lesson could he possibly be teaching us that requires such extreme pain and cruelty?
Some people feel that the existence of evil, for any length of time, is impossible to harmonize with the existence of a loving God. They say that the instant any evil appeared in a good God's universe He would have to immediately put an end to it. However, I believe God allows evil to exist, and actually designed our world with evil as a very important part of it, so that we may come to know both good and evil. I believe this first hand knowledge of both good and evil will serve all people well for all eternity, long after all evil has been removed from the universe. By God having designed a world where all people are certain to gain a first hand knowledge of evil, and more importantly the harmful effects of evil, all who choose to serve God will gain an understanding of why God's ways are the best ways, an understanding that will serve them well for all eternity.
Some respond to this by saying, "Even if God desired his children to be temporarily exposed to evil as a learning experience, a good God could never allow so much evil to exist." They say a good God would certainly severely limit the pain and suffering that He allowed His children to endure as a result of the evil He allowed and actually desired to temporarily exist. They look at the great suffering many people throughout history have endured and ask, "Wouldn't a loving God, if He existed, have stepped in and limited the amount of evil, pain and suffering these people had to endure? I believe questions such as this actually get to the heart of the problem of God permitting evil.
Let me ask you this. If a good God does exist, would you really believe He exists if you saw less evil in the world, if you saw people suffering less? I doubt it. For you know as well as I do that an all loving God, once He decided to stop evil, would have to stop all evil. If He were to stop only part of the evil, then wouldn't you still be asking the question, "If an all loving God exists, why is there evil in the world?" Would you really be any more likely to accept the existence of the God of the Bible if He stopped all pain caused by "natural causes," diseases, earthquakes and the like, but allowed people to continue hurting each other? I doubt it. For a perfectly righteous God, once He decided to bring about an end to evil, would have to bring about an end to all evil. He could not end all "natural" forms of evil but allow people to continue to murder each other. He could not prevent all murder but continue to permit beatings and rapes. He could not stop all beatings and rapes but continue to allow all robberies, cheating and adultery.
I think you get my point. Some maintain that any amount of pain or unrighteousness in the universe proves there is no God. However, I maintain that it has actually been by God's purpose that pain, death and evil have long existed in order for all of us to learn valuable lessons while being exposed to them. And because God is all loving, all knowing and all powerful, He cannot stop only some evil. The Bible tells us that God will one day bring an end to evil. And it tells us that when He does so, because He is all loving, all knowing and all powerful, He will then bring an end to all evil.
Of course, to us at this tiny moment in eternity, this process seems to be unnecessarily long. After all I am saying that God deliberately designed a world in which pain and suffering was an integral part for millions of years. Why for so long? Obviously I don't have all the answers. However, I do have faith. Faith that God arranged for things to take place as they are now taking place and as they have always taken place, for a purpose. I believe that purpose was most likely to teach us many great lessons. I believe we will learn all of these lessons when, in the future, we all have the ability to completely view and completely understand all that has taken place over the last fifteen billion years. Some of these lessons I have here mentioned. However I'm sure there are many other lessons which remain for us to learn, lessons which we will probably not understand for a very long time.
