Posts by Kanon

68

What I Saw & Heard in the Oral Argument Hearing on January 14, 2015

by ABibleStudent in

im not an attorney and i could not record the hearing, so please forgive me if i make mistakes in relating what i remember of the oral argument hearing for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society on january 14, 2015 and the length of this post.. i arrived at the civic center/union plaza in san francisco, ca about 7:30. the area is very nice with a few homeless people sleeping in the park across from the courthouse.

it took me about 10 minutes to find the clerks office for the court on the first floor, which opened at 8:00.. once the clerks office opened, the two clerks who i talked with were very polite and helpful.

the arguments for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society were scheduled 5th out of (i think) 8. while i was in the office a cameraman and another person for nbc arrived asking about the hearing for candace contis case.. the courtroom for the 1st appellate court is on the 4th floor and takes up most of that floor.

Kanon

I don't want to contradict Robert's detailed report since I wasn't there, but I have read the briefs (and am an attorney), and the only special relationship issue raised in the briefs was whether WTS and/or the congregation had a special relationship with Candace Conti (and to a lesser degree Kendrick), and not with each other.

Ok that makes more sense to me, although anyone who has had dealings knows the Org certainly considers itself to have a special relationship with any publisher of the good news. But I guess proving it with tangible evidence is a lot harder.

68

What I Saw & Heard in the Oral Argument Hearing on January 14, 2015

by ABibleStudent in

im not an attorney and i could not record the hearing, so please forgive me if i make mistakes in relating what i remember of the oral argument hearing for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society on january 14, 2015 and the length of this post.. i arrived at the civic center/union plaza in san francisco, ca about 7:30. the area is very nice with a few homeless people sleeping in the park across from the courthouse.

it took me about 10 minutes to find the clerks office for the court on the first floor, which opened at 8:00.. once the clerks office opened, the two clerks who i talked with were very polite and helpful.

the arguments for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society were scheduled 5th out of (i think) 8. while i was in the office a cameraman and another person for nbc arrived asking about the hearing for candace contis case.. the courtroom for the 1st appellate court is on the 4th floor and takes up most of that floor.

Kanon

The Watchtower does not have a “special relationship” with the local congregation and is not responsible for how the elders conducted themselves.

Funny this is a far cry from their position in the Menlo park case where their attorneys said

And I say "organization." I am general counsel for the National Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses out of Brooklyn, New York. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be here, but this is one of our 13,000 congregations in the United States. We are a hierarchal religion structured just like the Catholic Church. And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest -- in the parish.

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

Kanon

As for the elders directly assigning her I would not be surprised if they never did. From halls I have been in elders rarely took out any groups with the exception of an odd Saturday. Person taking out the group was most likely some MS or random brother who would have had no knowledge of the person past.

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

Kanon

Nitty-Gritty- The issue is the fact that the elder body knew this man had molested his step-daughter, then did not have safeguards in place to protect the youth.

If they had zero knowledge of his past and he violated someone it would be a tragedy but ultimately not their responsibility.

With this case and many others in the courts right now the problem is that the body's of elders and in some cases even the branch had full knowledge that individuals in the congregation were paedophiles, but kept everything hush hush.

19

Layoffs at Canadian Bethel

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

looks like the canadian bethel is following in the footsteps of big brother from new york.

i heard through the grapevine that a number of couples have been given their notice.

some of these folks have been in bethel for over 30 years.

Kanon

This is of no surprise to me I saw this coming along time ago. Canada Branch was becoming an old folks home. It had an extreme view of bethel was for life and you could never leave. So few did no most are older and unfit to do a large chunk of the grunt work.

So now it is thanks for all your work enjoy evangelizer school and exile to the Yukon.

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

Kanon

In reading the appeal arguments, I got the impression the WT lawyers were trying to play off like the elders have nothing to do with field service (or a least very little). Funny Org itself refers to field service groups as an extension of the congregation arrangement. So what goes on there is there responsibility.

If a single brother and sister were working alone together you bet the elders would get involved in those arrangements and quick, yet nothing was said to any family there about a paedophile who was known to the elder body. I defiantly think they failed to warn.

Ultimately though I would wager WTS will win this, based on lack of evidence and lack of knowledge (by the judges on how things really work inside the org).

90

Kingdom Consolidation and Sales are coming – Reliable Source

by thedepressedsoul in

i heard form a reliable source that a kingdom hall consolidation is going to be happening in the us.

currently they are looking at every kingdom hall to see if they could and should sell it.

any kingdom hall that has not been updated and is in a bad location (long driveway, not in a visible location etc...) will be sold.

Kanon

Well seeing how low real-estate is in the states right now, I always said if you had a nice chunk of money to buy some up and hold it till prices started to climb again you would become filthy rich.

So collect all the money from Congregations world wide.

Liquidate property that will not have maximum yield in the future.

Take all the money and buy up all the cheap prime real-estate you can.

Shuffle congregations to these new property's to cover the running costs.

Wait till the US market gets better and prices go up.

PROFIT!!!!!!!

15

Jehovah's Witnesses appeal to UK charity tribunal against regulator's statutory inquiry

by Stealth in

however, they may have missed their window for the appeal being 6 months after the commission said they would investigate them last june.

.

http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/jehovahs-witnesses-appeal-charity-tribunal-against-regulators-statutory-inquiry/governance/article/1328401.

Kanon

This is crazy, how can you appeal a decision to investigate something? No decision or judgement has been reached. If you are guilty of nothing why fear an investigation?

34

Congregation that have sent in money!

by DwainBowman in

in the past week, i have heard from a number of friends scattered all over the place.

a number of them are very upset over the congregation being required, to send in all monies over $4,000.

a number of these were kh's that were saving to buy land, and or build new kh's.

Kanon

I dont know about him getting his money back, does he have a document making his donation conditional for the sole use of building a new hall.

Also the hall would have done Motion and vote before sending the funds, what was his participation in that. Did you oppose the vote. If not they could say he now gave permission for the funds to be used for another purpose.

Plus like many said if he makes the suit he will face repercussions in the organization for it is he ready for that?

21

Dating processes why the big differences?

by Crazyguy in

i watched a documentary last night where they found old bones and spear heads in mexico.

this work was originally started in the 60s but they went back over the decades.

the main researcher dated the items at about 20,000 years old.

Kanon

I believe carbon dating is limited to at max the 50,000 year range. Though I have read that it could be even shorter 40,0000 - 20,000.

But 250k - 400k would be completely inaccurate