i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
What you see as an ad hominem, I see as questioning you the way you are questioning others
Dubstepped, I don't recall questioning your integrity. Or that of any other individual contributor to this thread. Perhaps you will oblige by quoting me, where I did?
Best wishes, 2RM.
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
Finkelstein, I can't help but agree that if all Christians did exactly as Jesus preached, there might be a better world and more Christians, and a better world, and more Christians, etc.
But I also think that the faith is not so much a destination, as a journey. And on that pilgrim journey, we all progress from different stages at different speeds, according to our inclinations and circumstances.
Best wishes, 2RM.
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
...money of itself has no intrinsic value, is both created and destroyed in various activities.
Agreed, Shepherdless.
Your ideal suggests that you are one of those who think all the money on the planet is a finite set amount (as if it was found under a bush somewhere by cavemen, and in circulation ever since).
But don't blame me for this focus on total wealth. Blame Credit Suisse, who estimated total world wealth in 2017 as $241 trillion. That was the figure I took to calculate an equitable distribution of individual net worth. Maybe Credit Suisse think that cavemen discovered this money?
Best wishes, 2RM
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
Splash, I have already addressed pretty much all the points you raise. Either you have not read the thread, or you are misconstruing me. Either way, if you want to make a contribution to the topic, I recommend a little application on your part.
Best wishes, 2RM
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
OK. Back now. Let me try and put this scurrilous allegation down, once and for all.
I am not a communist. I find Marx's labour theory of value faulty, and, for that reason, the entire intellectual edifice he constructed in Das Kapital unpersuasive.
I am not a communist. It is arguable whether Russia, or China, or their satellite states, ever actually implemented communism as envisaged by Marx and Engels. What they did do, was implement a government of the people, by the elite, for the elite. Basic freedoms were denied the people, such as freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of movement, and freedom of conscience. The entire system was coercive and based on the force of power. Little wonder, then, that the ordinary worker sought to sabotage it's functionality; it was the only option he had to express his dissatisfaction.
I am not a communist. The fact that I criticise neo-liberal capitalists, who want the same government of the people, by the elite, for the elite, does not make me a communist. The only significant difference I can find between the goals of two systems is that one used the forces of civil and military power to exercise control, and the other uses the forces of economic necessity. Either way, the result is the same. The small people get screwed.
I am not a communist. What I am is an ordinary Christian, who loves God, and His world, and His children, and is fed up to the back teeth of having his heart broken by the plight of the dispossessed.
I hope that might clarify matters, a little.
Best wishes, 2RM.
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
Ha Ha! I have to be brief, as I am due to go out shortly. But I am reminded of the famous saying by the Catholic Archbishop Helder Camara: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist."
More later. Meanwhile, feel free to discuss amongst yourselves!
Best wishes, 2RM.
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
This experiment has all be tried, many times, on a small scale and on a large scale, in the past. For example, they tried it in Russia after WW1, resulting in 20 million people starved to death in the 1920s. They tried it in China in the 1950s, and 50 million people starved to death.
I think you are talking about communism. If you can be bothered to read the thread, you will discover that this is not what I propose. But if we are talking deaths from starvation, according to the Borgen Project, the current count for the capitalist status quo is 36 million every year.
Best wishes, 2RM.
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
Many, many problems still to be overcome.
Indeed so, Xanthippe. I do not deny that. Nor do I pretend I have all the solutions. However, I am trying to present a moral overview of the state of the world, from which strategies and tactics may be derived and developed. And I think this might even be a somewhat useful contribution to make.
Best wishes, 2RM.
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
Why, thank you. There are a number of microfinance charities operating this kind of scheme in the UK. I use a local organisation called Deki.
Best wishes, 2RM.
i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.
apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.
luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.
War - imagine if every hate filled religious lunatic world wide had $33,000 to pool into cult, hatred, jihad, proselytizing, - power is the currency here not money.
Overpopulation - we are on the brink of extinction right now because we already consume more than the world can supply - $33,000 of "security" could lead to more reproduction, not less...
Environmental destruction - is $33,000 given to a consumer society likely to go to even more consumerism/profit at the expense of the natural world..
Good points.
In response:
War. If all the world's money were to be equitably distributed, then a lot of the economic causes of conflict would evaporate instantly. Inequality is often the recruiting sergeant for terrorist organisations.
Overpopulation. In the developed world, the birth rate is roughly around the replacement rate. The population is not growing, because women are educated and in control of their fertility and do not need to breed excessively to be sure of a few survivors to keep them in their old age.
Environmental Destruction. Much of this is caused by the poor, because they have no choice. They have to take bad short-termist environmental decisions because they are better than just not surviving. Again, in the developed world, we have the wealth to afford a more enlightened, long term perspective, and look after the environment so that it continues to look after us.
Thank you for your compliment.
Best wishes, 2RM.
