SecondRateMind

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Posts by SecondRateMind

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  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

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  SecondRateMind

  A nonsensical and nonfactual statement, there are some very moral people with money, in generosity and giving as well retain moral social responsibility.

  Yes. But the thesis of the thread is; if the financially rich were really moral, they wouldn't be materially rich, because they would have already succoured the poor to the limit of their capacity. This is not nonsense, but a simple, direct, comprehensible statement of a moral position. However, it is, of course, non factual, insofar as any moral statement is a matter of opinion, rather than a matter of fact. Unless, that is, one believes one's own moral understanding to be equivalent and identical to that ideal morality sometimes called 'God's Will'.

  Best wishes, 2RM.
  
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

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  SecondRateMind

  Not only have I not read Hart, but also I do not propose to judge individuals. What I do think I can reasonably do, however, is suggest an equitable distribution of the world's wealth, spell out approximately what that entails, and leave others, thus informed, to make their own decisions in respect of the deployment of their own souls.

  As for reality; why, people may, or may not, agree with me. I recognise that. But I am not the type who thinks controversy necessarily a bad thing. On the contrary, if it causes people to stop a while, and consider, and try to justify their attitudes to themselves, I think it a good thing.

  Best wishes, 2RM.
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

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  SecondRateMind

  Furthermore, some people in the poverty level income live well within their means, and so many others in between the poor-rich spectrum. Not having all the means doesn't mean impossible to live and/or strive.

  Uh huh. This is similar to Dickens' Micawber recipe for happiness: "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."
  

  On the face of it, it is hard to fault. Until one realises that there is a necessary subsistence level of expenditure, that one must spend, to sustain one's own life and that of one's family. Spend less than this, because one has less than this, and one is not just not happy, not just miserable, but outright condemned by an unkind, uncaring world.

  Best wishes, 2RM.
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  SecondRateMind

  If you make it, it's yours to decide what to do with.

  Indeed it is. But while there is hunger, and malnourishment, and death from starvation, in the world, it will remain a ethical issue for all us moral agents to take a position on. It just is our business, if we wish to think of ourselves as responsible people. In the end, we can meekly accept the world as it is, or join the battle of good against evil, and try to make of our lives something of which we can be proud.

  Best wishes, 2RM.
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

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• 

  SecondRateMind

  Nothing is stopping anyone right now from giving whatever they want.

  Indeed not. But there is, in the world, an acceptance, even a sycophantic approval, of people hogging more than their fair share of wealth. Some of these greedy individuals even consider themselves Christian. I think we need to turn this attitude around.

  Best wishes, 2RM.
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

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  SecondRateMind

  BUT in a healthy economic society there MUST BE inequality.

  Uh huh. Why, exactly? Why is it better that 1 person owns a million $ of shares, than a thousand people each own a thousand $ of shares?

  Best wishes, 2RM
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

  1. 
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• 

  SecondRateMind

  How is it just, fair, and equitable to take what one person earned and give it to another? Reaping and sowing is also a Biblical principle, no?

  Uh huh. Where did I say that I wanted to take from some and give to others? Charity is also a Biblical principle, and this is what I advocate. Just on a massive scale. The advantage of charity is that each individual, charitably distributing their own excess of wealth, will want maximum 'bang for their buck', and be very careful about where, and to who, it goes.

  Best wishes, 2RM
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

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• 

  SecondRateMind

  Thank you Alex, for your considered response. In reverse order:

  4) Of course we love freedom. There is nothing in my proposal that prevents freedom. I just think free people should freely succour those less fortunate, or they are not, actually, free, but slaves to their wealth.

  3) How much to artists and scientists? The same. My proposal should be clear enough, on that.

  2) No, we don't need to move people around. Just subsidise them, such that they are in a position to enhance their productivity, and thereby improve the lot of the whole of humanity.

  1) I think laziness is a danger overstated by the ideologically driven right-wing of politics. In my experience, most people want to improve their lot, and that of everyone else, but are frustrated by a lack of monies that allow them to invest in themselves and their families and so raise overall standards of living. Doing nothing is, at the end of all considerations, a very boring method of passing one's life away. Mostly, people want to feel they are contributing. Furthermore, I am not suggesting that the world's annual production should be given away for nothing, but that everyone should qualify for an equitable distribution of the world's production, whether they are the CEO of a fortune 500 corporation, or a subsistence millet farmer in sub-Saharan Africa.

  Best wishes, 2RM
  
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  SecondRateMind

  Likely most who have less that $33K of net worth will think this not a bad idea.
  I think this is how socialism works.

  I think what you Americans call socialism, which is what we Brits call communism, is based on the state ownership of all means of production, political coercion, and the compulsion of it's citizenry. That is quite different to my proposal. Citizenship in kingdom of heaven on earth has always been, and must always remain, an entirely voluntary affair.
  

  Best wishes, 2RM
  
• 
  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SecondRateMind

  I am interested in the approach this forum takes to money. Apart from sex, (which I am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.

  It seems Jesus thought so, also. Luke 16:19-31 KJV describes well enough His dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.

  And this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist His words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.' to excuse our individual and collective failure to right this wrong.

  There are two billion people who are absolutely poor, according the the UN. So poor, they cannot provide food and clean water, secure shelter, sanitation, and primary healthcare and education for their families. They live on the equivalent of less than $1.25 per day. Less than the cost of a starbucks coffee, for all their daily needs.

  Meanwhile, the richest 1% of the world own as much as the remaining 99% put together. And, according to Oxfam, last year the rich got even richer, while the poor did not.

  I propose a simple, just, fair, equitable solution.

  Let us take all the world's wealth, and divide it equitably amongst all the world's people. And let us take all the world's annual production, and divide it equitably amongst all the world's people.

  That would allow us each a net worth of some $33,000, and an income per year of some $16,000. Multiply by four, for the the combined allowance of the conventional nuclear family. That is quite sufficient for all of us to live a modest, environmentally sustainable, reasonably dignified way of life.

  And let us do this voluntarily, because we think it good and right and just. And, for those of the rich who cannot bring themselves to part with their money, let us pity them the fate that Jesus warned of in the parable of Lazarus, and try to save them from the consequences of their avarice.

  Best wishes, 2RM