Kocept: you are misinformed about the policy the elders has to follow.. If you where an elder than you should now that the elders had recently Schools(2013-2014) like da furious told in a recent post, where the policy about how to handle sexual abuse was discussed, and changes like where mandatary report is required the elders must report it to the authorities.. and these changes you can not find in the sheperd book.. if you like to now the policy of the Jw, and a lot of letters concerning this issue, then I reccomend you all to thirdwitness.com.. and You don't have to believe me, but believing those who are insisting on that two witness rule, ate not informed very well, and I want to see the outcoming of those trials.. Never cry victory before you have won a case..
Posts by Enzo
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105Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"
by AndersonsInfo injehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.
if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.
and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.
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105
Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"
by AndersonsInfo injehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.
if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.
and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.
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Enzo
Da furious and flipper: Thank you both for expressing your points of view. but I want to say about the procedure the elders must follow when a victim tell it to the elders and accuse another JW about sexual abuse: The elders must listen, not interrogate( at that stage it is not a judicial matter), the must clearly inform the victim that he must inform the police, and that nobody can criticize him or her, neither the elders... The victim HAs NOT TO WAIT until the local branch is informed before he or she go to the police.. This call at the branch is only to help elders to handle this delicate matter, but has nothing to do with the liberty of the victim to go tothe local authorities... But I can dollow you Da furious that there are elders who are not following this procedure, and are creating a lot of problems..That's one of the reasons whytheyMUST know call the branch.
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105
Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"
by AndersonsInfo injehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.
if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.
and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.
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Enzo
da furios: thank you for your information...
phizzy: the elders when confronted with a testimony of a child, they have handle immediately: they have urge to go to the police with his parents.( in some countries mandatary report is not obbligatory at this moment), so that the inquiry can be made..by experts, and a psychiatrist.. Elders are not experts, or therapists, thus it is better that experts can do his work.. but believe me , elders who are not up to speed with those instructions will be removed... They want to avoid mistakes like in the Conti case..l
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105
Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"
by AndersonsInfo injehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.
if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.
and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.
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Enzo
Dear Barbara, thank you for your answer.. I will give more clarification of what I said about the two witnesses rule: in the past you needed two EYE witnesses to give a testimony, so that it could be a congregational matter, and judicial action could take place.. But the difficulty in such cases like sexual abuse is that there is only one witness , the victim in this case.. how to handle such cases and being in harmony with the scriptures? The CO, said recently to me that in such cases , court rulings, DNA proof, and other proof the police can discover trough investigation, will be considered as a SECOND WITNESS, and therefore a judicial action can start against the predator, in meanwile when the process in a court is going on this not mean that the congragation can not do nothing to protect the children.. In first place he can not go in service with children, he con not play with children , a general warning can be given at the congregation, how to protect their children from predators. Parents with children will be approached and giving a warning, and to go in the service with their children as a family and in recreation...to accompagny their children to the toilet at the hall, and to be very vigilant... He will loose his privileges, and the elders have to be very vigilant..for someone this could not be sufficient.. But these are at this moment internal procedures within a Religious organisation, and I can say that changes where made trough the input and the voice of Silent Lambs witch I am grateful... But saying that JW's are doing nothing to protect children, or protecting sexual predators is not very honest, and a not very balanced view..
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105
Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"
by AndersonsInfo injehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.
if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.
and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.
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Enzo
This change is not new, but for more information call the local branch of the Watch Tower Society, and hear their answer.( like I Did a Time ago)..and you will now the answer.. or ask a CO when he visit your congregation, and ask him about tht two witness rule, and you will hear it...but I repeat if someone of you has recent information that this has changed Again, but I don't thinks so, I will hear it..
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105
Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"
by AndersonsInfo injehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.
if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.
and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.
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Enzo
hi, everybody, from Europe,
by the information I had from reliable sources, is that the two witnesses rule IS NOT apllied anymore on cases of sexual abuse, But if someone has having a strong opinion about it, I can understand your feelings because sexual abuse has to be condemned always..But we must be always being prudent in presenting information about intern procedures used by ReliGious organisations... it is true that in the past the two witness rule was applied, but this isn't the case anymore... Thus dear Barbara, if you are more informed than me about this issue, please present me the latest BOE letters, that are confirming that the two witness rule is still being applied.. greetings to you all...
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Ministers to consult over mandatory abuse reporting
by lurkernomore inhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29811206.
i wonder if this is put in force, whether the wtbs will comply or view this as more persecution?!
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Enzo
I don't think the WTBS will refuse to comply .. They will accept it believe me.. But it must also said that it is not sure if mandatory abuse reporting will be obbligatory.. First there will be a consult with Ministers about the risk, the scope, and the nature of such a mandatory report.. And wich form of sexual abuse must be report.. and then they have to change the law.. And that is not easy, because you have those who are against it, and those who are favourable.. we will see.. I hope that always the safety and the protection of children will be the dominant factor in such consults, and for the rest we will wait and see...
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105
Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"
by AndersonsInfo injehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.
if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.
and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.
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Enzo
I hope that justice will done, and that the victims of sexual abuse will have a good psychological assistance during their lives.. But what I am missing here is a measure of balance when these facts are posting .. It's very important to put sexual abuse in the right perspective.. Sexual abuse is found troughout society.. the cases of sexual abuse within the JW's ( horrible, and to be condemmed), are no higher, than in the Catholic church, or other religions.. I think that its important to remind these fact when reporting such cases...about JW's, or other minorities..
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87
Mental Disorders among JW's
by Blackfalcon98 inhi everyone, im begining to notice patterns of mental issues in the congregations and among the witnesses as a group.
do you think this is a trend in the entire world or is it exagerated in this organization?.
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Enzo
talesin: Thank you for your clarification about the word you use in English: Mental ilness..I will remember it. And I agree with your research about cognitife dissonance..It can lead indeed to depression.. But there is a difference between depressio, and a bipolair disorder, or Schizofrenia.. there are a lot of others factors involved when somebody has these mental ilnesses.. not enough serotonine and if we speak about BD in most cases it can be ereditary.... That is my opinion based on my experience on the field with mental ilnesses.. at other hand patients with a strong belief in God are reacting better on therapy than others.. That I have seen with my own Eyes.. Thank you for your research.. more scientific studies must be done before we can get some conclusions, because until now it is only presented as a possibility...or only suggested.. And using statistics like someone is not very convincing at this moment...
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87
Mental Disorders among JW's
by Blackfalcon98 inhi everyone, im begining to notice patterns of mental issues in the congregations and among the witnesses as a group.
do you think this is a trend in the entire world or is it exagerated in this organization?.
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Enzo
Oubliette: indeed I made a mistake: PD means Psychiatric disorders.. I have no problem to correct a mistake... That can not be said from anybody.. Isn't it? And by the way if my post are incomprehensible for you, than it is not a great efford, to ask for more clarification..But you are from the same category of Cedars.. like to criticize, but don't like to be criticised, when manipulated information is presented...and that's the case of your opinions presented here about Religion being the dominant factor why JW's has PD's..