Enzo

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Posts by Enzo

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  54

  London Press Conference on CULTS and UNDUE INFLUENCE - Aug 22, 2014

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtkhwfsnq7o&list=uuz1w0ll081jjiycjb298pow.

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  Enzo

  Rip van winkel: Yes, I am imitating you, and a lot of others here..

  Am I against to inform people about the dangers of being involved in a destructive cult? No at all ...There must be an information centre, but the information presented must be accepted by all the psychiatric community.. No theories that are still not accepted..and still under discussion...2) balanced material presented with scientifical evidences..( not manipulate by ex-cult members).

  about the dangers of a destructive cult, and the idea of denying responsability, from our part in it when making a choise to get involved in these dangerous cults...I will make this example: we all know the dangers involved by climbing a mountain like the mont blanc, or the Himalaya isnt it? you can arrive at tht top, but you can also fall, and hurt you, or even die.. Every year you can hear that someone has died, or in a clinical coma, because of an accident when climbing that mountain... But why then a lot of people ignore these dangers, and take the risk? Because it's their desire, their favourite sport....here is the point: It's their choice, and they will do it... conclusion : There are several destructive cults,(mountains)! If

  we decide to climb these mountains(destructive cults) think at the dangers involved.. If your desire for spiritual adventure is so strong, and you take the risks, then it is your responsability if you hurts yourself. you have made this choice,...thus think twice before making spiritual adventures...and make always a rational analys..
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  54

  London Press Conference on CULTS and UNDUE INFLUENCE - Aug 22, 2014

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtkhwfsnq7o&list=uuz1w0ll081jjiycjb298pow.

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  Enzo

  Tj Curioso: you want to see patterns,, like John's Cedars with a team of professionals, behind him. But I don't think that a high court would be very easily convinced... There is a lobby machine going on from ex-cult members on internet : and John Cedars is one of them.. i hope that you will use your critical thinking, and you analize all the other sources avaible in the psychiatric community about undue influence..and try then to make a rational thesis, without being influenced by ex cult members.. and that is a great problem for you.. You are not very neutral, but emotionally involved.. And every thing I will say to you, you will not accept. I think you are a smart boy, and I hope you will take your degree.. have a nice time..

  by the way John Cedars told he baptized by th JW's he was eleven years old... the question is was he forced against his will to become a JW? Can you speak about undue influence exercised on a eleven year old boy? Is this scientifically possible? What about a catholic boy who's parents decide to let hem do his second communion in the church? Isn't this also undue influence? i hope that you would think about a possibility of a leggitimate influence, by parents with good intentions, rather than claiming on a theorie of indue influence.. At a age f 20 years he analysed the teachings of the JW's, and took a certain period before he took the decision to leave the JW's... Is there somebody of the JW's who forced him against his will to remain a JW? No.. And about the procedure of leaving a religious organisation, it is legally established..but the main Issue remains: why isn't he going with al this proffesional team to a high court with all those claims? Do you think he will win? Perhaps on internet..but the possibilities in a real high court are very low.....

  I will wait and see...but I don't thinks so..
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  54

  London Press Conference on CULTS and UNDUE INFLUENCE - Aug 22, 2014

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtkhwfsnq7o&list=uuz1w0ll081jjiycjb298pow.

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  Enzo

  Oubliette: exactly what really happened, and this reality only God knows. Because someone is claiming something, don't means that he is telling the whole truth.. in italian we call this type of persons who beliefs everything: creduloni...

  Tj curioso: Leggitimate influence is permissible.. Read my post carefully before making conclusions. i thought that with a university degree you would be better in making conclusions...
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  54

  London Press Conference on CULTS and UNDUE INFLUENCE - Aug 22, 2014

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtkhwfsnq7o&list=uuz1w0ll081jjiycjb298pow.

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  Enzo

  John Cedars, has told his story, and I think that the fact he is being rejected by JW's, and especially his father, is the reason why he now wants to demonstrate that indue influence is the cause of this.. But that's his personal story, and every story has two sides...and about undue influence: sure it exists, but not only in Religious movements, these methods are used also in the media. And a lot of organisations... The truth is that between leggitimate influence, and indue influence there is a fine line.. there are a lot of strong scientifical evidence needed to prove it.. And that's the most difficult part in a court.. I am very curious what a sentence of a high court will be by such claims... until that day, I from my part will have my personal opinion on it...
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  Enzo

  parap: I didn' have the pretention that you must accept my opinions.. You are, alluding and making such conclusions..by yourself. And Nobody is asking to trust me...before I trust someone! This person has to gain my trust..This is a virtual world and everyone can pretending to be, or to know a lot off things.and yes I am not a court expert, but neither are you paraplipomenon.. Thus you can have a degree of a university, but you are not the only one... It's too sad that after a lot of days of discussing, and giving my opinion, that is not the same of the most of you, the only thing a view of you can do is using insulting or provoking language. .. this is very sad. And reveals A lot to me.. nobody forces you to give a reaction to what I am posting, and honestly I am not waiting on such ignorant comments....

  But otherwise I am convinced that this site has very intelligent members, Some post of these people was very remarkable.. I will read their topics always with a lot of pleasure... have a good time...
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  Enzo

  grazie per tutti i vostri commenti, dato che sono criticato cosi aspramente per L'inglese, vi scrivo nella mia lingua madre L'italiano..vi voglio dire che siete troppo suscettibil, e volete avere L'ultima parola in questione... Avete vinto, pero non mi convincerete mai... Ed io, non ho mai preteso di essere andato all'universita, e vi ho raccontato che lavoro per il servizio d'integrazione, dove il rispetto per qualsiasi denominazione Religiosa e auspicabile.. qualcosa che non sara mai purtroppo alla vostra altezza..il vostro odio vi ha reso ciechi.. Speriamo che il vostro modello, creato da Hassan, vi faccia capire, che con l'odio, e rancore non si ottengono risultati, ma con un attitudine comprensiva, essere pronti a cercare di capire un po gli altri, anche se non si condividono gli idee, o gli insegnamenti religiosi, si possono avere risultati inaspettati.. for all those who criticize me about my English, this is my answer in Italian....i will not anymore post something in English... greetings Enzo

  PS: this was my last post on this subject..the reason is explained in my post in Italian..I hope that you will find all the peace you are searching...I will spend my days in helping people, rather than arguing with you, waisted time....
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

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  2. 
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• 

  Enzo

  tjcurioso: What happens in a lot of families where there are tensions? very often they don't speak years with each other.. or till they dies. And good family relations are broken.. Very sad, with my work I often deal with such situations.... why is this conduct accept, and why is nobody ring on the alarm bell? i know a lot of JW's who have contact with expelled family despite the policy they have to follow.. And of course others who are following strictly the rules...but I think you are making an overstatement....we are approximately 4 miljard people on earth, if 4 miljoen people don't want teoretically speak with you, There are other 3 miljard people where you can have a good time...thus why making such a great problem about an expellement procedure, if families in different countrys, are practising the same method against homosexualss, lesbians? Without being religious...They are leterally send way from home, and not accepted anymore by the family... and i can't read a lot of protest against this? or didn't I miss something?
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Enzo

  Parapilpopemon: claims must be have strong evidences, and no I am not a JW apologist, or a droll, I am only a person who is not so easy influenced by others, and I have the idea, that if someone is rejecting your theories: you can't respect these persons.you call them trolls, JW apologist.... The main issue remains: did the BITE model really helped you? Your behaviour contradicts what you are preaching. when you got a court victory with all these theories, and claims, then I will read it.. But until then these are only claims, theories, models that are changing in every new book release, it's not difficult to understand that these theories remains still under discussion.. (london:111) and not acceped by everyone.

  London111: Thank you for your opinions, but I like to join to conclusions of experts, proffesionals, and in particular of the psychiatric community.
• 
  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Enzo

  Paralpoplemom: Thank you for your exellent research: but she didn't say that it is a destructive cult, a high controlled group has not al the characterictics of a destructive cult. 1) isolation, deprivation, hours of indoctrination. 2) Phisical, and economical damage. 3)Psychological damage. Al these factors have to be cearly manifest in a cult, to be destructive. And JW's are not so extreme. They are not encouraged to isolate from the society, and to go to live in a community, that makes it not possible to indoctrinate in a extreme way: See the Jim Jones cult, the Solar Temple...These are examples of a destructive cult.What about the physical and economic damage: Jehovah witnesses are like the must others working people, and also materialistic they are not forced to give their money to the watchtower, or to sell their houses. The psychological damage is the must difficult part to prove, and has to be substained by a psychiatric, and medical control, and not only by a BITE model. The blood policy by JW is not being forced on their members. The King's story in England these day's is confirming it. excommunicating members is also practiced in other Religions, and Organisations. how abstract these rules are, they are not determinant to prove that JW's are a destructive Cult. but that is my opinion.

  jignat: In Belgium a commission with a specialized team, and governments rapresentatives, made a list of destructive cults, that are followed by the Security department, and I can say to you that the JW's are not in that list, but they are recognized as a benign cult.

  tj curioso: try to search on google and you will find it.
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  144

  Have you ever read the review of Steven Hassan's books on Cult news.com?

  by Enzo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, to everyone my username is enzo, .

  recently a saw a video presented by john cedar presenting steve hassan as a cult expert.. .

  but read this reviews presented on cult news about steve hassan's books, and it's up to you make your own opinion about the video.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Enzo

  Tj curioso: An exploratory Study in methods of distinguishing destructive cults. (Jonathan Bohm, and Laurence Alison: Department of psychology, University of Liverpool)

  In the european Union the JW's are not classified as a destructive cult, but are empirically classified as a more benign cult

  ijgnat: you are right, what you said