Posts by Enzo

38

US Zone visit: disappointing, depressing, discouraging

by sir82 in

jw
friends

i will have plenty of "snark" to post later on, but please indulge me while i get this out of my system..... suppose you are the leaders...yes, the leaders...there are only 7 of you...for the one true religion in all the universe.. jehovah the god of the whole universe speaks to you, you alone, out of 7 billion+ people on teh planet.. you have an opportunity, thanks to the advancements in technology, to speak to 750,000 of your followers "live", and another 750,000 or so within 24 hours.. 1.5 million people!

hanging on your every word!.

this is the first time in history you can simultaneously, or nearly simultaneously, address so many of your adherents.. what message are you going to present for this special occasion?.

Enzo

Thank you blondie,

If a lot of publishers in the US, will ask to their elders, or to their local branch the references about issues he mentioned.. I think they have a serious problem.. This reminds my of Fred Franz talks about the statements of 1975, in a zone visit, and then being corrected by the other members of the GB, in being more prudent in making some statements.. I am very curious, of those opinions told by Morrison, will pass to the differenr Commitees, and get approved as publishing material to study.. I will wait and see...

38

US Zone visit: disappointing, depressing, discouraging

by sir82 in

jw
friends

i will have plenty of "snark" to post later on, but please indulge me while i get this out of my system..... suppose you are the leaders...yes, the leaders...there are only 7 of you...for the one true religion in all the universe.. jehovah the god of the whole universe speaks to you, you alone, out of 7 billion+ people on teh planet.. you have an opportunity, thanks to the advancements in technology, to speak to 750,000 of your followers "live", and another 750,000 or so within 24 hours.. 1.5 million people!

hanging on your every word!.

this is the first time in history you can simultaneously, or nearly simultaneously, address so many of your adherents.. what message are you going to present for this special occasion?.

Enzo

I have heard the entire talk, and what impressed me, is that he didn't use any reference of the WT, or literature, to prove that what he was saying whas also approved by the other members of the GB.... This is very strange.. In a recent meeting with elders, and MS, it was told to us to use the Bible, and the latest WT references, when giving advice in talks.. the CO said to us that there were adifferent speakers using the platform in promoting their own opinions.. Strange that they have now A member of the Governing body Anthony Morris who is not doing it like they are telling the elders, and MS, to do..

I am still figure it out, where there is a reference in the Watch Tower..that It is preferable to marry a MS for a sister.. I have no found it.. Merely a personal opinion.. Anthony Morris is a real living legend ..

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

Enzo

i have take a look at the court rules in California, and if indeed you are not present in the trial, the Judge CAN make a judgement, and order to pay the requested amount at the victim.. But that not mean that the WT, can not go in appeal.. They have the legal right to go appeal their decision on a District Court.. And I think they will do.. And I even think, just like the Conti Case that by an appealing, the judgement will be that the requested amount is too high... Here in Europe such amounts will never be ordered by a judge..

4

News Release from SNAP's David Clohessy about $13.5 million penalty

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovahs witness hq must pay abuse victim $13.5 million penalty; snap responds.

for immediate release: friday, oct. 31. .

statement by david clohessy of st. louis, director of snap, the survivors network of those abused by priests (314 566 9790, [email protected]).

Enzo

Very interesting, thank you for the info: But according to to rules in a cout trial in California, even if you are not present in the trial, you can appeal the decision on a District court.. And that I think they will do.. And i think that by an appeal of this court ordering they judgement will be that the requested amount is too high.. Look at the Conti Case..

105

Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.

if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.

and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.

Enzo

Cotty: It is not my website.. But it is easier to insult, and judge, than using your thinking abilities, in defending your opinion isn't it? who is then the real idiot here? I think you now the answer by yourself..

Konceptual: In every organisation there can be a mismanagement, this is not the first time it happens.. in the Conti Case for example they demonstrate indeed that there was a mismanagement in the policy, but in the verdict it was stated that for 30% the WT was responsible, the rest 70% was the sexual abuser who caused the great damage..But the last word of this trial is not said..I will wait and see.. Thus insisting on the fact that WT, is totally Responsible for having a bad policy, and insisting on the two witness rule, you, and a lot of you can do that, but the outcome of trials are speaking for themselves..

It is so sad to see that if you are giving your opinion here based on a objective and neutral way, you are attacked, you are an idiot, and so on.. This says a lot to me.. I have decided to stop posting comments here.. I thougt everyone was accepted here, but from my experience If you are a divergent here, you Are criticized..and in reality not welcom here on JW net.. I hope to all a fine journey in your lives, and I hope you will find peace in your hearts..

105

Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.

if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.

and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.

Enzo

Konceptual: Thank you for your expressing your opinion: I want to point something out: There can be a situation that a child that has been molested, went with their parents go the police, or other services, BEFORE going to the elders and tell them what happened.. In such cases they have done the right thing, because the safety, and protection of the child is the most important thing at that moment.. This is the personal decision the parents, can make, and the local branch have no autority in these personal matters., and will not take action, against these parents...The call at the Branch is to inform them, they will give you advice how to handly in such cases with respect with the local laws, and if neccesary they could get help from elders with brains, who has experience in handle such cases...this is the interpretation here in Europe about this policy of sexual abuse of minors.. But there is a difference between internal procedures thus a Congregational matter, and going to the local authorithies that can never be discussed, and is the most important thing for the savety, and the protection of the victim against the abuser..

105

Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.

if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.

and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.

Enzo

Kocept: you are misinformed about the policy the elders has to follow.. If you where an elder than you should now that the elders had recently Schools(2013-2014) like da furious told in a recent post, where the policy about how to handle sexual abuse was discussed, and changes like where mandatary report is required the elders must report it to the authorities.. and these changes you can not find in the sheperd book.. if you like to now the policy of the Jw, and a lot of letters concerning this issue, then I reccomend you all to thirdwitness.com.. and You don't have to believe me, but believing those who are insisting on that two witness rule, ate not informed very well, and I want to see the outcoming of those trials.. Never cry victory before you have won a case..

105

Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.

if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.

and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.

Enzo

Da furious and flipper: Thank you both for expressing your points of view. but I want to say about the procedure the elders must follow when a victim tell it to the elders and accuse another JW about sexual abuse: The elders must listen, not interrogate( at that stage it is not a judicial matter), the must clearly inform the victim that he must inform the police, and that nobody can criticize him or her, neither the elders... The victim HAs NOT TO WAIT until the local branch is informed before he or she go to the police.. This call at the branch is only to help elders to handle this delicate matter, but has nothing to do with the liberty of the victim to go tothe local authorities... But I can dollow you Da furious that there are elders who are not following this procedure, and are creating a lot of problems..That's one of the reasons whytheyMUST know call the branch.

105

Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.

if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.

and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.

Enzo

da furios: thank you for your information...

phizzy: the elders when confronted with a testimony of a child, they have handle immediately: they have urge to go to the police with his parents.( in some countries mandatary report is not obbligatory at this moment), so that the inquiry can be made..by experts, and a psychiatrist.. Elders are not experts, or therapists, thus it is better that experts can do his work.. but believe me , elders who are not up to speed with those instructions will be removed... They want to avoid mistakes like in the Conti case..l

105

Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo in

jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule is applied by elders when a witness member accuses another member of a sin, even if that sin is a criminal act.

if there arent two witnesses to the accusation, it goes nowhere, including not being reported to the authorities.

and in the case of an allegation of child abuse, the accused is free to molest again.. watchtower attorney, jim mccabe, recently stated this about jehovahs witnesses two-witness rule which he described as a bible-based belief :.

Enzo

Dear Barbara, thank you for your answer.. I will give more clarification of what I said about the two witnesses rule: in the past you needed two EYE witnesses to give a testimony, so that it could be a congregational matter, and judicial action could take place.. But the difficulty in such cases like sexual abuse is that there is only one witness , the victim in this case.. how to handle such cases and being in harmony with the scriptures? The CO, said recently to me that in such cases , court rulings, DNA proof, and other proof the police can discover trough investigation, will be considered as a SECOND WITNESS, and therefore a judicial action can start against the predator, in meanwile when the process in a court is going on this not mean that the congragation can not do nothing to protect the children.. In first place he can not go in service with children, he con not play with children , a general warning can be given at the congregation, how to protect their children from predators. Parents with children will be approached and giving a warning, and to go in the service with their children as a family and in recreation...to accompagny their children to the toilet at the hall, and to be very vigilant... He will loose his privileges, and the elders have to be very vigilant..for someone this could not be sufficient.. But these are at this moment internal procedures within a Religious organisation, and I can say that changes where made trough the input and the voice of Silent Lambs witch I am grateful... But saying that JW's are doing nothing to protect children, or protecting sexual predators is not very honest, and a not very balanced view..