With things like birthdays, autologous blood transfusion, trying out a non-JW church, etc., they will say that it is a matter of “conscience” . . . . that is, until you actually make a decision based on your own conscience, and then they drag you before a lynching tribunal and then spiritually stone you to death, and you get kicked out the door of their little “paradise.” That’s how it really works in the land of the Watchtower. (You always have to read between the lines.)
Posts by SAHS
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5When the publishing company says that its an issue of Conscience it begs the question. .
by Narcissistic Supply inwhen the publishing company says that its an issue of conscience it begs the question.how on gods green earth can you make a decision of conscience when you have been manipulated and twisted and distorted by ridiculous group think.. how can you make a decision of conscience when your perception of reality is based on trickery, lies, deceipt and isolation.
how can you make a decision of conscience when you are sold down the river by a cult.. you cannot build your house upon the sand.
well you can but it will get washed away.
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'Mentally diseased' was nothing new
by The Quiet One in"the watchtower of october 1, 1909, said: all who cut loose from the society and its work, instead of prospering themselves or upbuilding others in the faith and in the graces of the spirit, seemingly do the reverseattempt injury to the cause they once served, and, with more or less noise,gradually sink into oblivion, harming only themselves and others possessed of a similarly contentious spirit.
.they seem inoculated with madness, satanic hydrophobia [rabies].
" http://sianrose.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/beware-of-the-evil-slave/.
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SAHS
In the 20th century, under the old Soviet Union, the Russian communists would put people into some kind of prison or “reeducation centre” if they had dissenting political views which became known. I believe this practice was also done under the Chinese communists. It’s been a common theme, as a kind of anthropological/psychological control tactic, which not only seeks to cause people to question the morality and veracity of other people but also to question their own sanity.
In other words, as such coltrol groups think: “If a person’s viewpoint ain’t agree with our policy, then they ain’t sane.” As the popular saying goes, which “Vidiot” sort of alluded to: “Same sh^t, different day.”
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Role Reversal: Placing 1969 Awake with JW's Manning the New Portable Literature Displays
by snapdragon4 inin recent weeks the jw’s here in the uk have been setting up their new portable watchtower literature displays in my local town square on a saturday morning.
as they hadn’t knocked on my door for at least five years, and consequently feeling somewhat neglected, i thought that i would pay them a visit instead.. .
the first thing i needed to do was arrange my literature.
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SAHS
Excellent strategy! What would be really great is if someone could approach one of those new JW stands and present some specific points, just like you have already done, “snapdragon4,” but with the whole discussion being discreetly filmed with picture and sound (perhaps by another person hiding using a camcorder with a telephoto lens, while the person actually executing the encounter has a high-quality hidden microphone). Afterward, the audio-video footage could be assembled and edited (post-production), and a fairly brief but meaningful clip could be compiled which could then be uploaded to strategic Websites as well as various television media as an interesting little side story.
Wouldn’t that be awesome if such a little clip could end up going viral on YouTube, or better yet, actually be included in some news feature (such as 20/20, W5, Dateline NBC, or some relevant feature on CNN, Connie Chung, the religious cable channel “Vision TV,” etc.). Just think of all the effective exposure such a strategically-placed little clip could produce on some relevant television feature! That would just be “the cat’s whiskers,” wouldn’t it! Something to think about. I sure hope that somebody can take up the challenge.
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Intro - First time Post- Ventilation (it's a good read actually)
by BLWashington incurrently from houston, tx, but spent most of my life in chicago.
i've never had an opportunity to just get this out... so i apologize for the long-windedness in advance... .
i spent the first 17 years of my life in a jw home, then the real world caught up to me.
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SAHS
“BLWashington”:
Welcome to the Board! Experiences like yours are being added pretty well daily. There’s always the same common elements appearing: control, manipulation, shunning, coldness (lack of love), and then, thankfully, an awakening and redefining of one’s life with a newfound objectivity and freedom. I’m always impressed and encouraged when someone like yourself has the mental fortitude and personal integrity to wake up and bust out of the silly little box into which the Watchtower tries to keep us in.
“. . . an idea . . . A mammoth class action civil suit agains the WTS for a bevy of psychological afflictions that affect many EX JWs that have an effect on us YEARS after we leave the organization.”
Actually, some form of mass action resulting in general public awareness and governmental policy changes against organizations like the Watchtower could very well be on the immediate horizon – consider these two links below which my dad (a longtime JW elder) just forwarded to me regarding significant changes regarding the destructive and unfair policies within the Roman Catholic Church:
http://guardianlv.com/2013/07/roman-catholic-church-being-deconstructed-declared-criminal/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzvo7hp0ntY
If a significant international legal counter-revolution like that could transpire against such a monolithic and, up until now, “untouchable” institution as the Roman Catholic Church, then one would think that there would be hope for some kind of reform, or at least control, of the pukey little Watchtower corporation. One can only hope, but an action with any real power would have to start with a well-broadcast public educational campaign along with the right legal propositions delivered to the right people who have enough legal and political power and expertise to actually implement results.
I wouldn’t lose hope with your idea to propose some sort of closure and compensation for victims of the Watchtower, even if the best result could just be limited to words – words which could be the catalyst to, if nothing else, facilitate the mass exposure of the fraudulent and destructive nature of the Watchtower and implement some kind of controls to set reasonable limits on what they can get away with.
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The Faithful and Discreet Navigators blow of course....WHY?
by Terry in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].
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SAHS
Thanks, Terry, for clearing that up. A couple of strong cups of black coffee help the frontal neocortex too.
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Remarkably stupid point in this week's Jeremiah book study - Jehovah's loving kindness
by sir82 inthe whole jeremiah book is an abomination, but a point in this week's study exceeded even its usual standards of inanity.. from page 144, paragraph 10:.
in our day, god continues to show loving-kindness in ways that directly benefit his worshippers.
consider the matter of prayer.
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SAHS
“sir82”:
“Yeah, but he doesn't lose his patience! That's big.”
“Smoky”:
“...god doesn't lose his patience...hmm”
Well, I don’t know about that. I can’t help but think about a couple of occasions in the Scriptures which say otherwise:
• Uzzah touched the Ark of the Covenant just as a knee-jerk reaction to stabilize it when it was about to fall off the wagon (“the bulls nearly caused an upset”) and was heartlessly struck down and killed by Jehovah. Both accounts state that “Jehovah’s anger blazed against Uzzah.” – 2 Samuel 6:6, 7; 1 Chronicles 13:9, 10.
• The other occasion was when Jehovah killed a whole bunch of people who were reaping the wheat harvest simply because they happened to look at the Ark of the Covenant when it was being carried back from the Philistines. The account states that Jehovah “struck down among the people seventy men—fifty thousand men—and the people began mourning because Jehovah had struck down the people with a great slaughter.” – 1 Samuel 6:19.
That Jehovah sure had a bad temper when it came to his Ark of the Covenant! That’s far more extreme than even the most abusive husband. If that’s not an anger management problem, then I don’t know what is.
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The Faithful and Discreet Navigators blow of course....WHY?
by Terry in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].
[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:enableopentypekerning /> <w:dontflipmirrorindents /> <w:overridetablestylehps /> <w:usefelayout /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].
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SAHS
“What is relative subjection?
Here, let Jesus explain it
Matthew 6:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
That sounds “relative”? How is that relative?”
. . . .
“From 1929 to 1962 the Watchtower’s own Navigator “perceived” the wrong course.”
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This can start to get somewhat confusing with all the different and self-conflicting viewpoints over time. I’m just trying to get this clear in my own mind (which can start to get a bit dyslexic and pickled with too much reading and sorting out).
I believe you are saying that the WT’s view from 1929 to 1962 was incorrect – that incorrect view being that the superior authorities were Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.
That view was changed by the WT in 1962, whereby the superior authorities were the earthly secular rulers of the land but to be given relative subjection; i.e., obedience and subjection to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ were to always be given a higher priority in comparison to the earthly secular rulers when there was a conflict between the two.
However, when you quote Matthew 6:24 about not ‘slaving for two masters,’ you seem to indicate that it must be exclusively either/or, which would seem to preclude the relative aspect between the two.
Then you said: “Christians, despite their understood subjection to worldly rulers, refused to participate in the military. Period. End of sentence. WHY WASN'T THAT ENOUGH?”
That would seem to imply the idea of relative subjection to earthly secular authorities – a subjection to such an extent which is “understood” to be to worldly rulers but which, ultimately, would be to a Christian’s spiritual rulers because, in the final analysis, a worldy ruler’s command to participate in the military would be refused.
So, just to be clear, are you saying that ultimately the identity of the “superior authorities” are the earthly secular authorities but that a Christian’s subjection to them is to be in a relative sense; i.e., that such subjection to the earthly secular authorities is always to be superseded by that of Jehovah God and Jesus Christ? I just want to get what you’re saying clear in my own ( dyslexic, pickled) mind.
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Fear of Freedom
by Phizzy inwhen a long term prisoner is released in to society, they are often bewildered and at a loss what to do.
for many years they have been told what to do, now they have to make their own decisions, and make their own way in life, more often than not with little or no support.. the same is true for those leaving the j.w religion, in excatly the same terms as the last sentence.. do you think that is why some stay within the confines of the prison like wt ?
fear of freedom ?.
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SAHS
“When a long term Prisoner is released in to society, they are often bewildered and at a loss what to do. For many years they have been told what to do, now they have to make their own decisions, and make their own way in life. . . . Do you think that is why some stay within the confines of the prison like WT ? fear of Freedom ?”
I think much depends on a person’s fear and level of anxiety regarding death. Don’t forget, a large factor in the emergence of religion itself had to do with the psychological fear of death – the ultimate unknown – and the need to somehow come to terms with it through imaginative conjecture. I would think that those who become atheists or agnostics would have less anxiety and dissonance with taking a more personal and independent approach to their life’s course because they wouldn’t have the emotional baggage of the nagging feeling that they might somehow be disappointing or letting down a legalistic type of “god” by disobeying or not living in harmony with that god’s will.
Interestingly, a similar situation of learned helplessness develops with baby elephants in India. (I actually learned this from an article in either the Awake! or Watchtower magazine; I can’t remember which, or when it was.) Baby elephants are kept constrained with chains so that they can’t just run away or run wild. Eventually, as they grow older, the chains are removed – but the interesting thing is that they act as though they are still constrained by the chains, even though they are no longer there. That is how they are able to handle full-grown elephants with just one person. The “chains” exist solely in the elephant’s head. It has grown so accustomed to being constrained by chains when it was young that it just assumes that such is still the case, and thus it has learned to constrain itself within its own mental boundaries.
This, I believe, is somewhat similar to exiting JWs. Even when physically out, they can still manifest a degree of mental learned helplessness in that somewhere deep in their minds they feel a certain accountability and fear which transcends simple natural law and which tends to revolve around the fabricated deity and theological constructs of their upbringing. And of course everyone has that grim realization that their lifespan is only finite, and the primal fear and uncertainty surrounding this concept are programmed into our brain in the limbic system, including the amygdala and the medial and lateral mammillary nuclei. The more atheistic or agnostic a person is, the more they can deal with life pragmatically, without dependence on a “good standing” with a classic, religious “god.”
I, for one, endeavor to simply live in harmony with the universe and with whatever process can be though of as “that which caused” all that exists, and whatever metaphysical entity – “that which is” – which can be considered as close as it gets to “god.” The more scientifically you can look at it, the easier the transition.
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Remarkably stupid point in this week's Jeremiah book study - Jehovah's loving kindness
by sir82 inthe whole jeremiah book is an abomination, but a point in this week's study exceeded even its usual standards of inanity.. from page 144, paragraph 10:.
in our day, god continues to show loving-kindness in ways that directly benefit his worshippers.
consider the matter of prayer.
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SAHS
“Jehovah takes note of all sincere prayers, but he pays special attention when his dedicated servants pray to him.”
So, what exactly does Jehovah do by ‘taking note’ of all those zillions of prayers by “non-dedicated servants”? Does that mean that he jots down a little point summary on a post-it note somewhere? Or does he just say to himself something like, “Oh dear,” “Oh my,” “Oh that’s too bad for that guy,” or “Well, that’s interesting,” and then promptly forget it? Or does he check off some fields in that person’s record in his mighty database? (Must be a Mac if it’s God.) Or maybe he just quickly looks over at them, like a kind of “knee-jerk reaction” when he hears the word “God” or “Lord” muttered from even an average Joe, and then promptly forgets.
Now, when one of his actual “dedicated servants” (i.e., affiliated with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.) prays to him, maybe he quickly looks over at them too but also nods his head, as if to acknowledge that the one praying is a real person. (And then promptly forgets.)
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BLONDIE'S COMMENTS YOU WILL NOT HEAR AT THE 07-21-2013 WT STUDY (MARRIAGE)
by blondie inwt publications http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm (old).
why do marriage mates need to.
show respect for each other?.
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SAHS
I’ll tell you how many comments I made at that Watchtower study: None. I just couldn’t stomach it. Although, I did do some head-bobbing while I slept – does head-bobbing count as jesturing or use of visual aids? If so, I think the action my head made would have surpassed anything which could have come out of my mouth. . . . . So, I guess maybe I did give a comment of sorts – I let everyone (especially behind me) know just how much I appreciated the material on marriage.
(Actually, I would have much preferred to have given a comment with my feet, as in not walking my body into the kingdom hall at all that day. But, alas, I’m still stuck in it with my folks. My fading skills are about the same as my marriage skills, as you can see – I’m still an emasculated virgin at 47 . . . having to sit with my parents with a shirt and tie on Sunday mornings. . . . . Maybe I’d better pray for a pair of cojones so I can finally get myself up out of this Sunday vomit pit!)