for me, it took many years.. even when i would read all the changes over the years from the "truth", i still would ignore it and "wait on jehovah" and try to be a positive force in the congregation.. eventually, i just couldn't take it anymore and resigned as an elder, and slowly but surely made my fade.. what about you?
were you out, in a short or longer time?
?.
Left it in my mind and figurative heart: At least a decade ago.
Left it physically and permanently: Still a “work in progress.” (I’ve just got about $2000 debt left to pay off on my credit line, and then I’m looking for a geared-to-income apartment which can accommodate someone like myself who is currently on disability for depression and anxiety issues . . . wherever THAT came from.)
i'm 15, and i'm an unbaptized publisher... so i've been what you call "lurking" here for the past few weeks and i have some questions.
i hear you guys constantly mentioning ttatt so where can i go to learn more about this (links please)?
also i've already told my mom that i don't believe in the governing body and she is making me do even more!
“Gypsy Sam”: “Needless to say, we made the Memorial our last involvement with JW's”
“Ding”: “It's hard to know what to advise regarding your sister.
Does she believe it all or does she have serious doubts?
Depending on how close you are to her, you might consider asking her to help you clear up doubts or concerns you have about the religion, things that are holding you back from being baptized. If she agrees, you can show her things you are finding out (like contradictory statements, false prophecies, etc. in the publications). Instead of telling her your conclusions, you might ask her what she thinks, if she understands why this troubles you, gives you pause, etc.”
“Demokan,” that’s actually a good idea which “Ding” mentioned above. One thing that I find is extremely advantageous and smart is showing my long-time Jehovah’s Witness parents some full-length documentaries which I have found online (usually from YouTube). I tell my parents that I have come across a particular educational or news documentary which deals with either a general topic, such as mind control techniques or religious charlatanry, or even something specific about Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially if it is from a broadcast from an actual news network. I work it into a causal conversation, and then whet their curiosity, after which we mutually agree to view it. I’ll say something like, “I haven’t actually seen this before, but I just came across it the other day, and it looks sort of interesting. You might be interested in seeing it. See what you think of it.” Then we watch it, or as much of it as they want to see, and then they give their impression and comments about it, which usually leads to a good little discussion. The good thing about this approach is that it uses something from a more neutral origin – it is not something coming directly from you, but something you are proposing for mutual objective consideration and analysis.
“Demokan”: “So I just got back from the meeting, it was soooooooo~ boring. I just zoned out and daydreamed the whole time”
A good trick I’ve been using for many years is to use the ability to actually “play” music in my mind. I play the actual audio of the music that has already been stored in my brain through repeated listening. Of course, there are no physical sound waves involved when you are doing this, but there is an internal cognitive audio “signal” that you can summon and review/run right in your brain at will. It’s really an authentic audio daydream. The audio information already existing in your brain can be utilized in that manner to recreate the actual, literal substance of the music within the cognitive functioning of your consciousness. (There’s nothing mystical or uncanny about it – it’s just the natural ability we all have.) It works – trust me. This technique has gotten me through many meetings, assemblies, and conventions. (That, as well as the other ability I have, which is to control my brainwaves so as to bring myself into a napping state – no actual rapid eye movement (REM), but sometimes a little sudden head bobbing.) You’ll learn some of the good tricks of the trade here.
a letter read at our meeting.. .
our congregation is assigned a location (a nearby congregation) to listen (video, also?
) to the annual meeting.
Just a “heads up” – perhaps we should make sure that there is someone getting some “independent” footage of this thing right at the source. I wonder if it would be worth inviting some folks from the news media to do some filming, at least as a kind of general interest story. The more audio-video coverage the better, to make it all the harder for the Governing Body to be able to do any kind of backpedaling should the need arise. Although, I would wonder if they would actually let any news media personnel through the door – perhaps someone from the news media could be persuaded to provide some covert coverage incognito. Just a thought. Surely some sort of direct coverage could somehow be pre-arranged. That annual meeting will be coming up pretty fast. We’d better be ready with that electronic “noose” so they can end up hanging themselves on it, so to speak. Let’s not give them any opportunity to wriggle out of this one!
i find it interesting that the 7/15 watchtower will be studied from september 2-29th and then the annual meeting will be exactly one week after.
.
it strikes me as an effort to emphasize the fds and their role before a big announcement.. siam .
“problemaddict”: “I think the inclusion of more for the annual meeting is just going to be something that makes people "feel good" and included . . .”
I was thinking that perhaps making this year’s annual meeting apparently more inclusive will help dispel the stigma of the organization being so secretive and seek to promote the perception of more transparency and “openness.”
That strategy wouldn’t work, however, because they are still known to be secretive about their new elder’s manual “Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock,” the Bethel manual “Dwelling Together In Unity,” all the secret congregation files (all the little nasty-nasties), and, of course, those top-secret meetings of the Governing Body (control strategy sessions from the “octopus,” whose old bodies, just like a literal octopus, are grey and squishy), etc. – not to mention the infamous “secret database” of elders and ministerial servants who like to play with the little kiddies.
I guess the Governing Body is getting tired of formulating developments in secret meetings only to have everything leaked all over the world via Internet (not to mention getting just plain old and tired period), so they probably just said, “F^ck it; we’ll just have the damn meeting open this year – everyone will just find out anyway.” That way, they probably think they’ll seem a bit less like a secretive enigmatic cult. (Good luck, guys!)
i'm 15, and i'm an unbaptized publisher... so i've been what you call "lurking" here for the past few weeks and i have some questions.
i hear you guys constantly mentioning ttatt so where can i go to learn more about this (links please)?
also i've already told my mom that i don't believe in the governing body and she is making me do even more!
“Giordano”: “As long as your a minor you will need to respect your parents. But you shouldn't be forced to be a hypocrite.”
That is true in essence; however, I believe that respect is a two-way street. Even though you are presently a minor, you need to establish and maintain healthy boundaries, including social and emotional. Don’t disrespect your parents’ dignity, feelings, and beliefs, but at the same time don’t let them just get away with disrespecting yours either. Practice being assertive. Remember, being assertive does not mean being belligerent, hostile, or argumentative; rather, it involves maintaining a healthy self-esteem and projecting yourself fairly and appropriately. I’m 47 years old right now, but I remember hating being in my teens (a “young adult”) when people would automatically be condescending, patronizing, and belittling simply because of my physical age. I wanted to be thought of and treated as an adult.
You may be forced to kind of “play the game” as far as your family religious routine is concerned – to an extent, at least. (Many of us, including myself, have unfortunately had to do this.) But make it clear that you are not required by anyone to personally assimilate someone else’s core spiritual beliefs. Freedom of religious belief is one of the things guaranteed by constitution. You don’t have to “rock the boat,” but you also don’t have to just swallow everything and call it ice cream either. Always be true to yourself on an inward personal level. (Your brain/mind is in your head, not anyone else’s.)
A good axiom that works for anybody in whatever situation they may find themselves is called the “Serenity Prayer” (I learned that in my Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, as it is regularly read there). It goes like this: “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.” I know they’re just words, but such a philosophy really helps one to get a logical and beneficial perspective, as it is calming yet constructive. Basically: just try to change what you can, and don’t worry about the rest. (After all, what else can you do anyway?)
Lots of luck (yes, I said “luck,” contrary to the JW approved vocabulary) with your spiritual/philosophical awakening. Remember, everyone is worthy of respect – including you. Like the song goes, “Don’t worry; be happy.” Take care.
i got to thinking about all the strange interpretations in the old revelation climax book now that i have perused it again on pdf.
(thanks atlantis!).
does anyone care to toss in their two cents on what are the most outrageous and/or ridiculous claims in it?.
“notjustyet”: “ I beleive those stars were based on the Pleides spoken of by Russell. Also found out that that same group of seven stars were used by many a ancient religion in their beliefs.”
Actually, Russell even taught that the seven stars of the Pleiades, also called the “Seven Sisters,” was the physical location of Jehovah God in heaven! I don’t think that physicist Stephen Hawking would agree. (I guess that particular “gem” of a teaching had to be revised also.)
i got to thinking about all the strange interpretations in the old revelation climax book now that i have perused it again on pdf.
(thanks atlantis!).
does anyone care to toss in their two cents on what are the most outrageous and/or ridiculous claims in it?.
“RayPublisher”: “Perhaps they will make a new and improved book on Revelation again?”
If they do, it will probably be a very brief but large-print cardboard pop-version – you open it up, and the Harry-Potter-like creatures spring right up in 3D.
“FadeToBlack”: “I always thought equating the trumpet blasts to the old conventions you mentioned and the release of their resolutions was the most bizarre interpretation.”
Those purely contrived “Biblical connections” to certain men in a New York publishing corporation sure remind me of all the unbelievably contorted and fanciful “Biblical connections” which Charles Taze Russell dreamed up relating to the steps inside the Great Pyramid of Giza and his eschatological chronology. (And of course that had to be revised also.) Yes, numerology is one of the great tools for religious charlatanry. Russell sure tried to bang a square peg into a round hole. Franklin Rutherford tried to, but with a bigger hammer.
for many years, since the mid 80s, marilyn zweifel manned the help-line.
several months ago, the help-line stopped due to marilyn's serious health issues.
marilyn was hospitalized a few weeks ago.. she has serious health issues and has suffered from 2 serious falls... she is now in a nursing home.
My warmest regards to Marilyn Zweifel and her family . I have never talked to her either, but I do remember seeing her on a documentary quite a while back (I think it was around the early 90s), which aired on the Canadian CBC channel, called “Children of Jehovah,” and I believe it featured her “1 (800) WHY-1914” helpline, which made an impression on me and which I always remembered since. It showed Marilyn, who seemed to be a very caring and discerning mature lady, talking about the young victims of the shunning policy who had no place to go, and I will always remember when she said, “These kids need help!” I can still see and hear her saying that in my mind today.
The documentary also showed a young man attempting to call the helpline from a pay phone, but unfortunately at the time he was informed that the number was not available from his calling area here in Canada. (I forget exactly where he was shown calling from.) I don’t know, but I would imagine that the service area for the helpline would have eventually been expanded to include all areas in the USA as well as Canada.
I also remember being in the field service sometime in the 90s and seeing a card prominently displayed on a house showing the “1 (800) WHY-1914” helpline number for anyone with doubts or questions. I will never forget that either.
I’m sure that there are quite a few people, especially the younger ones who have been cast aside by their families (as instructed by you-know-what), who owe Marilyn a debt of love and gratitude. Although I didn’t get a chance to talk with her, she nevertheless indirectly touched me and contributed to the mental fortitude for me also to begin my personal journey of questioning and investigation.
Take care, Marilyn, and know that you are always well thought of by many.
http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=87586161f4bd1a9b&q=child+molestation+jehovah+witness.
52,800 hits speaks for itself.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jehovah's_witnesses'_handling_of_child_sex_abuse.
according to witness spokesman j. r. brown, jehovah's witnesses are not required to report crimes to elders before calling civil authorities.
“. . . well placed information access to those locked inside . . .”
Actually, you’re right, Frankie. A good iea along that line would be a few small slips of folded paper left inside kingdom hall washrooms which say on the front side, “Are you a Jehovah’s Witness? Pick me up,” and then when opened lists some choice Websites they can pick up – of course including “http://www.silentlambs.org.” Nothing like some “incidental informal witnessing” in a place where there aren’t any cameras recording to get the point across and hopefully open people’s eyes.
http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=87586161f4bd1a9b&q=child+molestation+jehovah+witness.
52,800 hits speaks for itself.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jehovah's_witnesses'_handling_of_child_sex_abuse.
according to witness spokesman j. r. brown, jehovah's witnesses are not required to report crimes to elders before calling civil authorities.
There should be weatherproof signs posted on the outside of kingdom halls warning parents and guardians of the Watchtower’s policy relating to pedophilia cover-up to protect their precious public relations image – maybe with a heading on the signs stating, “BEWARE BEFORE YE ENTER!”
