Posts by SAHS

40

ARE YOU AN ANGRY and BITTER APOSTATE?

by Hummingbird001 in

jw
friends

i have noticed that there are different reactions to learning the "truth about the truth".

some become quite bitter and angry and become very activist.

others seem to just move on quite easily.. .

SAHS

I myself have a mixture of resentment and anger tempered with a measure of relief and even validation.

I used to be profoundly upset and frightened around my early teen years about apparently being executed at Armageddon because I really thought that I actually had probably sinned against the holy spirit. (Some bizarre kind of sexual fantasies. Just one of those things; sometimes sh^t happens, especially entering puberty.) But after checking out this site in particular, I came to realize that the rather unique eschatological, apocalyptic prophecies of the Watchtower organization were actually quite contradictory, illogical, and just plain incorrect.

So I eventually ended up being quite resentful for how that egotistical, authoritarian religion manipulates people and plays them for fools, but, at the same time, I also felt relief and even a measure of serenity in knowing that at least I won’t be executed at the Watchtower’s Armageddon – not because I’ve suddenly been “forgiven” and given some kind of second chance at being saved and spared my supposed “divine fate,” but, rather, because my theological and scientific research has led me to the conclusion that there reallyisno Armageddon to be afraid of anyway.

So in the grand scheme of things, I don’t anticipate any kind of salvation into an earthly “paradise” or into a “heaven,” but at the very least I don’t believe that I am condemned to a life now on “death row” awaiting divine execution either. I have resigned myself to the simple fact that I am eventually going to simply die just as all other biological organisms have and always will. So I guess for me, no grand prize and no cigar, but no chopping block either. I’ve been tending toward the purely logical, agnostic, scientific perspective – i.e., to hell with all of this theological, ecclesiastical, evangelical, philosophical, dogmatic puke imposed by any organized religion – and for me, that’s just, well, fine and dandy.

10

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-05-2014 WT Study (VIGILANT PRAYER)

by blondie in

jw
friends

be vigilant with a view to prayers.

present-day christians face a similar challenge because the long night of satans wicked system of things is now at the darkest point in its history.

and how important is prayer with regard to my salvation?.

SAHS

Good points as usual, Blondie! I always glean some new little perspectives from your clever summations.

My public comment at yesterday’s Sunday Watchtower study included my clarification of the sentence in paragraph 13 which reads: “If we are dealing with illness or are struggling with depression, for instance, . . .” (Emphasis mine) I reiterated that this sentence mentions “illness or . . . depression,” and said that depression IS an illness (i.e., it’s not depression or illness). I then informed everyone that in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Illness, or “DSM” – which is basically the “bible” of psychology and psychiatry (the current version being the DSM-V, or DSM-5, revised 2013) – depression is considered an illness.

I strongly felt that this distinction had to be made, as it seemed to me that the Watchtower was subtly implying that depression is not a bona fide illness but something that is all just “in your head,” so to speak. I believe that it is vitally important for people to call them on specific viewpoints of theirs such as this, as people really need to be brought a proper amount of objective clarity to the discussion.

22

"Peace and Security"!!!! JW.ORGs best and last chance for fulfilment.

by scotoma in

jw
friends

in the old revelation book there was a section on the cry "peace and security.. "14 in recent years, politicians have used the phrase peace and security to describe various.

human schemes.

or was paul referring only to a specific event of such dramatic proportions.

SAHS

It’s obvious that the WTS will be forced to remain in their current state of “limbo” because if they were to say that the Biblical proclamation of “peace and security” is currently being or has already been fulfilled, then they would in effect set a new clock ticking which demands results pretty much “instantly,” with the expectation that all false religion worldwide would then be turned on and effectively obliterated; HOWEVER, what they will have to continue to do is point to any kind of political or social turmoil as just further proof that ‘we are indeed deep into the time of the end’ and that the cry of “peace and security” must be ‘in the very near future.’

They have to remain in this sort of “sweet zone” whereby people are kept in expectation and anticipation of this cry of “peace and security,” which begins the final stages of the time of the end, commencing the “great tribulation” and leading right up to the climax of Armageddon – BUT they cannot actually go so far as to make any announcement of the fulfillment of that cry of “peace and security,” as the failure of the “sudden destruction” part (Babylon the Great being turned on by the UN, of all things) would fairly shortly seal their fate as being confirmed false prophets.

So they will have to keep perpetuating the understanding that we are ‘deep into the time of the end’ but not at that very last stages. In other words, the final little fuse is about to be lit, but it never will be (it can’t; reality won’t allow it), and so no need to bother waiting for the big “kaboom” just yet!

67

How Long Have You Been Viewing Thiis Site? Does It Serve Its Purpose For You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i've been here forever.... this site still gives us some of the most up to date info about jws .

it keeps evolving.

sometimes it is the place to be and i think that's especially true for newbies.

SAHS

This site, I believe, is the best free-speaking site out there for JWs who are curious, questioning, and in different stages of fading; and, of course, former JWs (XJWs) who have “been there” and are now trying to make some sense out of it all and put things into perspective so they can move on with their life with some sort of clarity and dignity.

I’ve been on this site since around the year 2000, and it’s been this very site that has been the thing which has let me discover many telling facts about the JW religion that I needed to see. (The religion and my elder dad have made me feel condemned and unworthy to survive Armageddon, so I thought that if I was going to be executed by God anyway then I might as well go to this site and see what all the “apostate” fuss is about.) This site has also given me a chance to see what a lot of supposed JWs really think and feel about their religion in their heart. It’s like being able to candidly “take the pulse” of a cross-section of the JW community and to sort of “be a fly on the wall” so as to observe what is really in the mind and heart of JWs in various states of covert questioning and personal deliberation.

My hat is off to Simon and all those who have a part in maintaining this site. There is quite a variety of folks on here from all parts of the spectrum, and this is an excellent place where you will get a unique and raw perspective (which you would certainly never be able to get in any conversations with the people at any kingdom hall).

Thank goodness for the Internet. Blatant lies and deception will be exposed, and freedom of thought and expression will live on!

13

Let the Sun shine in - March Awake

by jws in

jw
friends

has this been covered yet?.

i was looking to download the new nwt from jw.org and stumbled across an awake on creation - march 2014 edition.

and it always interests me to see the latest spins they'll try to make creation sound plausible.. seems now they are implying the sun, moon, and stars were created when god said "let there be light".

SAHS

“jws”:

“And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars. Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth . . .” – (Genesis 1:16, 17)

When the Bible says that God “went on to make” the two “luminaries” of the sun and moon and to “put them” in the expanse of the heavens on the “fourth day,” it doesn’t mean to imply that the very beginning of the formation of our sun and moon occurred on the fourth creative day but, rather, that the fourth day included the culmination of the existence of our sun and moon in relation to our earth as would be observable in that specific location and at that time.

The age of our earth is extremely short when compared to that of our solar system and galaxy, not to mention the entire universe. The events – or processes – culminating in the state of our earth and that which occupies it as observable today, being as extremely long as they may appear relative to the human lifespan, are still actually quite astronomically short in comparison to the events/processes involved to complete the formation of the celestial components of our universe.

Thus it is only logical to realize that the formation of our sun, earth, and moon as a star, planet, and satellite (respectively) – the multi-phased ‘creation of the heavens and the earth’ – had already been completed much, much earlier than any of the relatively very recent events/processes pertaining to the life forms on, and certainly the metrological and geological features of, our planet as would be observable by the fourth creative period, or “day.” The creative “days,” or “tasks” of God, in Genesis would obviously happen concurrently; i.e., they would not have to be in series with one absolutely completed before the next could commence.

As regards the moon being considered a “luminary,” I believe that would be a correct term because light does emanate from the moon, and it is irrelevant in this context as to whether or not that light originates from the moon. A “luminary” is something which illuminates, which could be something providing the light by emission or reflection. (The essence is that which is observed here on earth – i.e., light is light!)

“ ‘. . . scientific conclusions about the age of the universe.’ If the bible and science don’t conflict, you’d be talking ‘days’ in the range of >2 billion years/day, not ‘thousands.’ That’s billion with a B.”

You’re absolutely true on that one!

“Exodus 20:11, ‘For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and he began to rest on the seventh day.’ And Exodus 31:17, it says, ‘for in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and refreshed himself.’ ”

Again, the original Hebrew word (“yohm”) translated “day” has the meaning of a 24‑hour day but also that of a period, or era, with a varying or indeterminate length. And considering the astronomical differences in these two meanings within a literal and scientific context, as outlined above, it would be totally unreasonable and illogical to impose a literal 24‑hour length to the “days” of creation.

Therefore, in this particular regard, I believe that the Watchtower’s position in the March 2014 Awake! to which you referred above would be the logical interpretation. (Although, I personally incline toward what “Billy the Ex-Beth elite” wrote above concerning the book of Genesis itself as a whole: “Genesis is clearly a variety of legends . . .” – i.e., that the rest of that book is not exactly plausible.)

93

Appointed by holy spirit

by Ben57 in

jw
friends

i have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.

it amazes me at what many have said.

perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.

SAHS

Scientifically speaking, I believe that the reference to and belief in the “holy spirit” is really a self-hypnotic mechanism which has the effect of aiding the person’s own memory recall and putting the person in a more receptive mental cognitive mode (i.e., alpha brainwave range) so as to be better able to think objectively and logically. And, of course, any positive results which may arise from such an improved state of clarity would be attributed to some existential and divine type of source – in effect becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

93

Appointed by holy spirit

by Ben57 in

jw
friends

i have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.

it amazes me at what many have said.

perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.

SAHS

The Watchtower makes it so that you could support either viewpoint simultaneously depending on exactly which portion of their literature you wish to quote from.

Even though they explicitly say that their decisions and appointments are merely guided by the holy spirit in that they supposedly follow the spirit-inspired Scriptures, they nevertheless seek to subtly lead people into assuming that there is some kind of direct, supernatural connection with the holy spirit in their case. And, of course, this easily-concocted assumption made by many from “reading between the lines” really plays right into their hands. In other words, people are led to assume that their literature does, in fact, naturally make this assumption of divine revelation – but if you were to try to call them on it, they could simply point to those other statements which admit that they are, in reality, just being guided by the holy spirit through prayer and Scriptural meditation (as well as their own local deliberations).

They promote either perspectives, and it’s sort of like using the various facets of a physical diamond or prism – you can conjure, or highlight, any color you want to appear just by the angle you hold it at. And just like they say, in tennis or skipping stones, . . . it really is all in “the flick of the wrist.”

75

Christmas is WRONG!

by thesaint in

jw
friends

you all should be ashamed of your egotistical selves.

how can you leave god's organization to celebrate the work of satan the devil?

it just goes to show you how jehovah's christian witnesses are correct about how persons will leave the truth for their own selfish desires.. first off, christmas is a pagan holiday and it proves no spirit with the almighty jehovah and his son, the christ.

SAHS

“thesaint”: “All the doctrines in our holy WatchTower publications are correct, as evidence from deep study of the bible, so there is no reason to try to go against the publications from the faithful and discreet slave because it is from he who is above.”

Well, “thesaint,” it would appear that you have neglected to check out an overview of the precepts your “holy WatchTower” with such basic history as:

http://www.freeminds.org/history/key.htm

http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm

http://www.freeminds.org/history/part2.htm

http://www.freeminds.org/history/part3.htm

http://www.freeminds.org/history/part4.htm

Happy reading, hon.

11

QUESTIONS TO ASK JWs

by NAVYTOWN in

jw
friends

a good question to ask a jw is: do you follow what the bible teaches or what the watchtower organization says?

then ask them to give you just one example of a doctrine in the bible, that they have ascertained through their individual bible study, that is different from what is taught by the watchtower.

of course, they cannot honestly answer without admitting that they do in fact follow the watchtower and not the actual bible.

SAHS

“DesirousOfChange”:

“Just as they did not understand that the soul dies, or the promise of everlasting life is on earth, or the pagan origins of Christmas on their own, but needed the direction of the Jah's Org, so too they admit that they cannot even begin to understand this mumbo-jumbo about the Generation changes or the identity of the F&DS.”

Exactly. It’s a bait-and-switch technique, used by magicians and swindlers alike. The Watchtower is, indeed, correct regarding their logical understandings of certain basic things, such as the immortality of the soul, the pagan origins of many religious customs and celebrations, etc. . . . HOWEVER, they try to get people to think that if those things are true, then all the other beliefs unique to Jehovah’s Witness, such as “God’s organization” and its supposed divine authority, must also be true.

It’s really simple misdirection. (Remember when you were a kid – just exactly how did grandpa pull that quarter out of my ear?) David Copperfield, Chris Angel, and other gifted masters of illusion can do it, and so can the masters of deception we know as religious charlatans – and they are very good at their own “trade.” Cults can be very talented in their enigmatic tools of persuasion, but just like the masters of physical illusion, when we ask ourselves “just how did that elephant disappear,” the secret answer to the trick is so elegantly simple that when you discover it, you just want to kick yourself! So-called mystical – or divine – “power” is gone in a flash with just a little bit of knowledge.

75

Christmas is WRONG!

by thesaint in

jw
friends

you all should be ashamed of your egotistical selves.

how can you leave god's organization to celebrate the work of satan the devil?

it just goes to show you how jehovah's christian witnesses are correct about how persons will leave the truth for their own selfish desires.. first off, christmas is a pagan holiday and it proves no spirit with the almighty jehovah and his son, the christ.

SAHS

To “thesaint”:

The conclusion regarding Christmas (or any other holidays people celebrate), when you think of it – when all is said and done, really – is, WHO CARES!

The net result is that the children have something to look forward to, and everyone is reminded of humble and higher-order social values which are mutually beneficial based on natural and moral principle. Even if there are “technical inaccuracies,” the fact is that, being on a Scriptural theme, Christmas is something that at least makes people think about Jesus in some way. Instead of being something disrespectful or blasphemous, it should really be thought of as being rather complimentary. If I were Jesus (which I’m not), I would actually be somewhat flattered that the most significant financial boon of the year is something relating to my name. Good or bad, it nonetheless is something that reminds everyone of unselfish and philanthropic, Christian-like endeavors, even if some of the gifts involved happen to be exchanged the next day (Boxing Day).

And speaking of technical inaccuracies, or falsehoods, I personally think of this: there are Egyptian mythology, Babylonian mythology, Greek mythology, Roman mythology, Hindu mythology, native Indian mythology, etc., . . . . and there is also what I call “Christian mythology.” When you stop and look at the whole forest of religious beliefs and customs, they always involve people or demigods going back and forth between the earthly and “heavenly” realms, performing some kind of magical feats (miracles), and purveying some kind of mystical or “divine” knowledge from the gods. Looking at it from a modern scientific, logical, agnostic perspective, I think it’s all mythology (of one bent or another).

So, as to which customs or celebrations anyone would, or would not (or should, or should not) indulge in, if it’s basically all just bunk, then, . . . . well, like I said, Who cares anyway! I.e., just shut up and drink your eggnog. And remember to enjoy yourself, and help others do the same. Merry . . . . Just be merry, okay? That’s really what it all boils down to.