Posts by SAHS

32

Scriptural Basis for Obedience to GB?

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

i have a genuine question for the jw apologist.

.

what is your scriptural justification for your unquestioning obedience to the governing body and your unwillingness to question their intepretation of scripture?.

SAHS

“Ucantnome”: “I believe 1919 is the date that is given as the date that ‘From atop this celestial chariotlike organization Jehovah commissioned this dedicated, baptised, anointed class of servants to speak to all the nations in His name. Thus like Ezekiel , they became Jehovah's witnesses.’ (Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah – How? 1971 WTB&TS)”

I thought that technically the International Bible Students Association formally adopted the name “The Jehovah’s Witnesses” at a district convention talk given by Joseph Franklin Rutherford in 1931. That book Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah – How? was actually published in 1971. It seems that the WTS likes to be consistent in their revisionalist history. This whole idea of a “Governing Body” and also the name “Jehovah’s Witnesses” were formulated well after 1919 – which proves that they were just making things up as they went along.

37

A PERSONAL QUESTION to help me finish my NOVEL

by Terry in

jw
friends

here is a personal question:.

is it disturbing to you when an author jumps into the flow of history and radically departs in order to drive an important lesson home to the reader?.

in this novel i have several watch tower leaders meeting incredibly violent deaths at the hands of --well, i won't give anything away.

SAHS

“Terry”: “Is it disturbing to you when an author jumps into the flow of history and radically departs in order to drive an important lesson home to the reader?”

No, I think that certain historical elements are important to the overall import and flavor of your message. The secret is in the weaving – the historical context should be woven into the story in a manner which preserves clarity and coherence and doesn’t cause confusion.

The goal, I think, would be to allow all types of readers to readily make the intended connection to mind-controlling, totalitarian administrations and regimes – especially the one we’re all to familiar with: the WTS.

It looks like The Monorails of Mars could be an excellent vehicle to allow many lurkers and fence-sitters to get a glimpse of their little sectarian forest from a bird’s-eye perspective and to shine a critical and objective light on the inner workings and operational strategies of that little forest’s leadership. Sometimes it takes the subtleties and nuances of a radical and introspective type of parody to force people to look into the mirror and see the connection with their own personal involvement in their little utopian “spiritual paradise,” even if it’s firstly just on a subconscious level. Such choice eclectic creativity may certainly be up to what it takes to allow those insightful seeds to be planted in folks’ subconscious to germinate and graduate into full-fledged and deliberate conscious thought – and decision.

Perhaps many JWs, especially nearer the fringes, will first look at that and say, “How ridiculous!,” only to soon thereafter exclaim, “My God, that could be about my own story! It looks like that really illustrates exactly what I’ve allowed myself to get tangled up in!”

Your book will be just the thing to show people in WT land what their Society really looks like from the outside. Let the presses roll.

32

Scriptural Basis for Obedience to GB?

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

i have a genuine question for the jw apologist.

.

what is your scriptural justification for your unquestioning obedience to the governing body and your unwillingness to question their intepretation of scripture?.

SAHS

“designs”: “SAHS- you realize that the Church of Rome and the Eastern Orthodox interpret those passages just the opposite of your Protestant take on them.”

True. The Catholic Church cherishes their “apostolic succession” doctrine (supposedly from Saint Peter), as it is the linchpin of authority in their own house of cards. Although, the whole hierarchical institution of the Catholic Church didn’t really start emerging as such until well after the death of the apostles, especially from the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. when Roman Emperor Constantine I melded “Christianity” into his secular/political administration. Thereafter came the cultural elements defining Catholicism, such as indulgences, idolatrous veneration of approved saints, etc.

The WTS has a similar claim on exclusive divine authority with their little pope-like clan. But in their case, it’s basically “same sh^t, different day” – they just happen to be “late bloomers” in the game.

11

What happened in Christianity ? O.T prophets were male & female ,God was not gender specific,

by smiddy in

jw
friends

according to scripture they could.

sure in jw land anybody could partake of the emblems and wine , male and female denoting they could be rulers with christ in his heavenly kingdom , however did many of these partakers actually have any say with the governing body ?

in fact did any of them have any say in their own kingdom halls ?

SAHS

“MadGiant”: “Are you sure that it's only the WT, and not the bible or the NT, that demoted women to second class citizens?”

While it is true that the Bible is generally misogynist and chauvinistic (apart from the gospel accounts, which indicate that Jesus actually accorded women respect and dignity), the WT does seem to ‘go beyond the things written’ (1 Corinthians 4:6) in its draconian, parochial policies which basically put women in the status of owned property (chattel) with absolutely no congregational assignments or functions allowed – other than toilet-cleaning, student “talks” for sisters (scripted demonstrations, never addressing the audience), and magazine placements.

Given the WT’s outrageous and undignified treatment of women even in this day and age, I believe that they would be considered more condescending, unfair, and degrading to women than their ancient Jewish counterparts in the middle east!

32

Scriptural Basis for Obedience to GB?

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

i have a genuine question for the jw apologist.

.

what is your scriptural justification for your unquestioning obedience to the governing body and your unwillingness to question their intepretation of scripture?.

SAHS

I imagine that JWs would hinge their Governing Body’s supposedly Biblical authority on these FALSE suppositions:

(1) The mention of a “faithful and discreet slave” at Matthew 24:45-47 (RNWT) refers to a specific “governing body” of men to be appointed directly by Jesus during the time of the end (in 1919).

-----> FALSE! That was a parable illustrating all Christians in the role of teaching and upbuilding the congregation.

(2) “The apostles and elders” in Jerusalem referred to at Acts 15:2, 6, 23 (RNWT) constituted a prototype “governing body,” to be used as a precedent during the time of the end (in 1919).

-----> FALSE! That was an ad hoc committee formed to clarify a particular controversy involving the Mosaic Law.

(3) Hebrews 13:17, which says “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, . . .” (RNWT), is ultimately referring to a “governing body” representing the highest level of theocratic order on earth today.

-----> FALSE! There was no “ruling” council in the first century. Jesus Christ was the ruling authority over Christians.

(4) Malachi 3:1, which says “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight” (RNWT), is referring to Pastor Charles Taze Russell preparing the way for the true anointed “Faithful and Discreet Slave” (which now solely comprises the Governing Body) in a manner similar to John the Baptist preparing the way for Jesus Christ.

-----> FALSE! This was referring specifically to John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. Only Jesus can be “the true Lord” whom the people were seeking and who would “come to his temple” – NOT a publishing corporation coming to power!

(5) The prophet Ezekiel and the apostle John being instructed to “measure the temple sanctuary of God” (Ezekiel 41:15; 45:3; Revelation 11:1, 2; 21:15-17; RNWT) refer to Christ’s inspection of “Jehovah’s templelike arrangement for pure worship” (WT, Mar. 1, 1999, p. 13, par. 2), embodied by the 144,000 anointed in God’s great spiritual temple, New Jerusalem. Representing the earthly courtyard of that spiritual temple is the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, headed by that anointed class (but now the Governing Body itself), which was inspected from 1914 to 1919, resulting in its approval and selection as God’s one-and-only chosen mouthpiece on earth in 1919.

-----> FALSE! That had to be a symbolic “measuring” of all of God’s children (not just 144,000 anointed) in His heavenly organization.

11

What happened in Christianity ? O.T prophets were male & female ,God was not gender specific,

by smiddy in

jw
friends

according to scripture they could.

sure in jw land anybody could partake of the emblems and wine , male and female denoting they could be rulers with christ in his heavenly kingdom , however did many of these partakers actually have any say with the governing body ?

in fact did any of them have any say in their own kingdom halls ?

SAHS

The WTS would say that it’s all a matter of the “headship principle.” But, of course, the way they interpret that is most self-serving to raising the level of authority of the GB.

The WTS certainly remains out of step with enlightened culture. In contrast, throughout history there have been powerful and respectable female leaders of entire countries, and we also see a steadily-growing number of women in various levels of service within the mainstream churches, including those who have been ordained and hold positions of leadership.

The thing that really gets me perplexed and angry is that a woman can work as a president or CEO of a large corporation or even as the prime minister of a country, but when she gets home and then goes to a meeting at the Kingdom Hall, she is forbidden to do the most basic functions such as work behind the literature counter, operate the sound system, or even handle the microphones! I could never understand that. It must be very insulting and undignifying for women to have such low regard for their basic humanity. Really all women can do in the JW congregation is clean the damn toilets and hand out literature door-to-door. She even has to wear a head covering to study with her own baptized son! How many religions today take misogyny that far! I think that even orthodox jews and Muslims have better regard for women now (at least in western civilization).

If the JWs were any more socially oppressive to women, they would probably require sisters in the Theocratic Ministry School to wear burkas!

13

Another Totalitarian Analogy

by metatron in

jw
friends

i've spoken privately with some witnesses over the past couple weeks and it caused me to think about an analogy.

i turn to totalitarian examples because that's the basic structure of the 'truth'.. as nazi germany encountered defeat, several things happened.

some higher ups sought to escape into surrender in the west because they realized defeat was inevitable.

SAHS

“LostGeneration”: “They cater to dependent thinkers, people who want their thinking done for them. Probably 30% of the population falls into this category . . .”

That’s probably true. It’s probably more a matter of smoke and mirrors than bullets and barbed wire. Sometimes the worst kind of concentration camps are the ones which people allow to be created and perpetuated within their own mind. (Mind control is a sneaky and nasty business.)

20

2014 Convention Lapel Card / Badge

by the girl next door in

jw
friends

.

SAHS

“smiddy”: “Some convention sights are badge only entry. . . . Could you verify that statement for me please?”

I am guessing that this might be implemented only for the sites hosting the international district conventions just to have some kind of verification process to encourage only those invited to attend. I have never heard of any other kind of actual badge check anywhere at all.

23

I dont think we should past judgement on people who post here for the first time

by smiddy in

jw
friends

just saying , my 2 cents worth .

if they have an agenda it will be revealed in a short time , let them play it out .. however , some genuine first posters can be put off by somebody jumping the gun and attacking them .. please give the first posters time to get to know this site.. smiddy.

SAHS

To “smiddy”:

This is certainly an excellent and most timely topic! I too have felt quite indignant and incensed at the way some new posters have been treated, at least by some. People start coming here for a reason, and I believe that the vast majority would be coming here to get some real answers and candid insight into the WT organization which they wouldn’t be able to otherwise.

Certainly I believe that everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt – after all, that’s the Golden Rule, right? (You know, the “do unto others” thing?) A little empathy and dignity is always the right thing to do – no matter what a person’s status or standing.

And if hypothetically someone did come on here as a full-fledged “troll” – I don’t care whether it’s of the garden variety apologist or someone on the service desk at Brooklyn Bethel or even one of the governing body members – it still really wouldn’t matter because, like “Slidin Fast” said, “Any information or opinions that are based on a false premise or unproven accusations . . . are questioned, examined and dissected.” So in the end, it all comes out in the wash. And as with the widely-known peer-review process in the scientific community, anyone can submit their theory (or premise) but it must pass through the rigorous gauntlet of inspection and verification. That’s only fair, as long as it’s done in a dignified and respectful manner.

Like “ABibleStudent” said, “Let other readers make up their own minds about what a poster is or is not without labeling them.” That’s really the safest route to take . . . and often ends up saving someone from having to chow down on a big portion of “humble pie!”

171

New to The Jehovahs Witness Faith and need some help

by jnjburkett in

jw
friends

hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.

i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.

we do about 2 bible studies a week.

SAHS

“runForever”: “Why would you be looking for a support group for witnesses if you were just studying?”
Well, maybe – just maybe – “jnjburkett” wanted to investigate whether there are in fact such ‘support groups for witnesses’ so she might check into the actual veracity and social climate of JWs for comparison to what she has been learning from her new studies. To me it seems reasonable for someone new to gather different types of information from a variety of sources and venues so as to be able to discern the whole picture – especially with an organization like the WT which would potentially demand so much of someone’s life and take such a toll on someone’s mental and emotional welfare.

Again, I believe that giving the benefit of the doubt is always the wisest and fairest course.