“ttdtt”: “Next maybe Elmo and Big Bird can help us understand really complex things like 607.”
LOL!!!
Posts by SAHS
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The Bread Illustration (Feb 16 Broadcast) - Massive Contradiction
by fizzle inso... bro flodin puts poison onto the first loaf of bread and says that this pictures someone "sinning against the holy spirit".
he then puts the bread into the trash can stating that jehovah completely discards anyone "sinning against the holy spirit"... meaning they cannot ever be forgiven...he says that the pharisees "sinned against the holy spirit" because they denied indisputable evidence of the operation of jehovah's holy spirit displayed by jesus... therefore jehovah would completely discard them... no way back for them.. fast forward a little... we have the bible character stephen...acts 6:8 says: now stephen, full of divine favor and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.so stephen was showing indisputable evidence of the operation of jehovah's holy spirit.now we come to the bible character paul (saul)... he was a pharisee.paul would have seen stephen in action... witnessing the indisputable evidence of the operation of jehovah's holy spirit first hand!yet paul not only waged war against all christians but he personally approved the killing (stoning) of stephen.according to the bread illustration paul should have been discarded by jehovah at this point for "sinning against the holy spirit"... he would have been put in the trash can... no way back at all...but what happened according to the bible?
jesus appeared to him on the road to damascus... he became one of the most zealous apostles in bible history with jehovah's full support!so what on earth is the bread illustration all about?
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SAHS
“Fisherman”: “Paul was spiritually blind when he persecuted Christians. That was not the case with the Pharisees that Jesus referred to as sinning without forgiveness . . .”
Well, if that were the case with the apostle Paul, then that would logically also have been the case with the other Pharisees to whom Jesus addressed in Matthew chapter 23 – the very same ones to whom Jesus said: “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Gehenna?” (vs. 33). Jesus referred to them as being “blind” five times in that chapter: He called them “blind guides” (vs. 16), “blind ones!” (vs. 17), “blind ones!” (vs. 18), “blind guides” (vs. 24), and “blind Pharisee” (vs. 26).
Now, don’t forget that Paul publicly said about himself at Acts 22:3: “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but educated in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, instructed according to the strictness of the ancestral Law, and zealous for God . . . ,” and at Galatians 1:13, 14 he said of himself: “I kept intensely persecuting the congregation of God and devastating it; and I was making greater progress in Judaism than many of my own age in my nation, as I was far more zealous for the traditions of my fathers.”
So, it looks to me like Paul was quite an educated and astute Jewish Pharisee, certainly one with the necessary discernment to realize whatever legitimacy there was to the evidence of God’s holy spirit in operation among the early Christians. There is absolutely no way I can see that Paul would have been any less blind than any of his fellow Pharisees. (As Forest Gump would probably say: “Blind is as blind does!”
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SAHS
Individually they are just people, like everyone else; however, the Watchtower leaders who were responsible for designing, engineering, and implementing the hypocritical framework of the cult, with all its destructive dogma and policies, from the beginning are the very most culpable. In particular, the engineers of the ban on blood transfusions (if I remember correctly, I think it was the work of Fred Franz and Hayden Covington), as well as the temporary bans on organ transplants, immunization/inoculations, and alternative military service (whoever were responsible for all of that). Those leaders should have been called to account and put on trial for their arrogant and licentious actions, which have caused untold misery and innumerable deaths.
And, of course, the biggest movers and shakers of the bunch, the prize charlatans themselves, Charles Taze Russell and his big bully successor, Franklin Rutherford. They were the ones who started up the whole thing from the beginning. Russell started up a new American cult under his name (“Russelites”), and Rutherford successfully changed the little whacky cult into a big-business organized “religion.” Both of those clowns happened to have the financial backing and legal expertise necessary to make it happen, otherwise the damn circus wouldn’t have been able to actually get off the ground.
So, yes sir, as for those men, I feel a pronounced sense of disgust and indignation – not just for exactly what doctrines and rules they made up and enforced, but for the degree in which they deliberately empowered themselves and set themselves up as “gods” to do it.
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SAHS
Another implication of being “thrown out in the trash” by God because of having sinned against the holy spirit by supposedly “unforgivable sin” is that apparently any JWs could end up being in that situation just for being dishonest or outwardly deceptive about money given and/or preaching hours spent – such as in the particular case of Ananias and Sapphira, mentioned in Acts chapter 5.
I could never understand why the Watchtower says that the apostle Peter was forgiven for denying Jesus three times, and that wicked Judean kings such as Amon and Manasseh were also forgiven and thus did not commit the unforgivable sin, but Ananias and Sapphira are forever condemned just because they lied about holding back some of the proceeds of the sale of a plot of land they had owned as a contribution to the apostles.
The Watchtower strongly implies that Ananias and Sapphira have sinned against the holy spirit and thus will never get a resurrection, as we can see from the following excerpts:
“Peter miraculously knew about their deceptive scheme, and his judgment indicated that their sin would not be forgiven.” (“https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/god-forgive-me/,” second-from-last paragraph)
“Ananias and Sapphira did not fall prey to a momentary weakness. They schemed and lied in an attempt to deceive the apostles. Worse still, they ‘played false to the holy spirit and to God.’ Jehovah’s response demonstrates in no uncertain terms that he is prepared to protect the congregation from hypocrites. Truly, ‘it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God’!—Heb. 10:31.” (“http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008760#h=21,” paragraph 15)
“Ananias, another early disciple of Jesus, also lied. But God did not forgive either him or his wife, Sapphira. She had agreed with her husband to tell the lie. Let’s see why God did not forgive Ananias and Sapphira.” (“https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130301/why-tell-the-truth/,” seventh paragraph)
But it seems just ridiculous that on the one hand someone could be “thrown out in the trash” while someone else could do all the bad he could think of and still be forgiven. For example: Don’t forget that King Manasseh, as mentioned in Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 307, “made his sons pass through the fire, practiced magic, employed divination, and promoted spiritistic practices. Manasseh also put the graven image of the sacred pole he had made into the house of Jehovah,” and he “was also guilty of shedding innocent blood in great quantity.” Also, as Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 1, p. 861 says, he “‘did on a large scale what was bad in Jehovah’s eyes, to offend him,’ including the consulting of professional foretellers of events, who flourished under his rule.” Now, I would think that is one heck of a lot worse – and much more willful and culpable – than just someone lying about the total value of some of their assets from which a donation was being made to the apostles. It’s like someone spitting on the sidewalk versus another person committing mass murder and the one who spat on the sidewalk getting executed while the mass murder hardly gets a small ticket.
So, the practical implication of all of this is that a wife-beating, child-molesting, slanderous, hypocritical asshole of an elder or circuit overseer can get away scot-free while some poor rank-and-file schmuck can (evidently!) commit the unforgivable sin and be eternally damned just for being a bit deceptive about the amount of money he is donating or the number of field service hours he is putting in. That’s, of course, if you were to relate it to the example of Ananias and Sapphira. But that account seen in comparison to those super wicked Judean kings such as Manasseh (I mean, burning your own sons in sacrifice to pagan gods!), who was forgiven just because he later decided to “repent” inside a Babylonian jail cell after being captured by the king of Assyria – well, it just doesn’t add up to me at all. (Like, what’s wrong with this picture!)
From the foregoing, it seems that the implication of the message from the February 2016 broadcast is that it’s okay to be a complete hypocrite asshole, just so long as you don’t do something to sin against the holy spirit. Now, I know that they never mentioned Ananias and Sapphira at all during the broadcast, but isn’t it interesting nonetheless, at least as a side point, that the Watchtower often brings up their example as ones who have sinned against the holy spirit because of the apparently worst, most heinous sin of all – being dishonest about the amount of a monetary donation.
So, basically any lowly JWs could be chucked into the big garbage can; that is, if they commit the unforgivable sin. Who knows what exactly that sin would be. But I’m sure that the Watchtower leaders are only too happy to be the final authority and judge on that one.
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SAHS
Oh, so if I put more garlic on my bread, then that will make Jehovah sad and he will kill me at Armageddon. I see. But garlic is proven to be pretty much the very best antioxidant, antibacterial, anti-fungal superfood that there ever was. And it’s used quite properly in, um, oh, what’s that called again, . . . . garlic bread! What a profoundly stupid illustration.
And if anyone has “sinned against the holy spirit,” it should be the Watchtower leaders themselves. Why do I say that? Well, consider this: They have been demanding that families shun their own flesh and blood just for the so-called “crime,” or “sin,” of accepting an emergency blood transfusion for themselves or their baby children, or for any other of their umpteen stupid self-contrived petty rules, all of which have caused many countless deaths (from forbidding blood transfusions, organ transplants, and inoculations/immunizations), suicides (disfellowshipping), as well as unnecessary imprisonment (“superior authorities” and neutrality) and horrific persecution (Malawi and that damn little government “party card” thing) – and, too, not to mention playing God with millions of people’s lives through those and other zillions of their man-made and continually flip-flopping doctrines and policies without so much as a single honest and sincere apology (deliberate arrogant hubris)!
Now, I’m no expert scholar or anything, but I would say that the longstanding history of the actions and attitude of the Watchtower leaders are much more significant and culpable than just the ordinary day-to-day “sins” committed by us all. I mean, how many people have you absolutely traumatized or actually killed today?
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Did you KNOW Ray and Cynthia or the legal copyright holder? Only a few maybe had limited contact.
by blondie ini have known all of them over the last 15 years, talked at length with them, and knew what their wishes were, the copyright holder and spouse spent even more time with them socially and helping them set up their arrangements for when ray and cynthia passed.
i don't believe that anyone else on this board or others was a confidant.
there is no need to prove it to anyone but the copyright office which is satisfied with this.
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SAHS
It would be great if the current copyright holders would at least do something to make Raymond’s books available for purchase in one form or another, at least as an e-book, seeing that there is in fact a rising demand for it. The overhead costs for marketing some electronic form of the books, I would think, would be pretty well nothing in comparison to an actual hard copy printing run. It would just require some nominal storage space on a public server, such as Amazon. (That is, as long as they wouldn’t impose those ridiculous, Goddamn “geographical restrictions,” which Amazon is unfortunately notorious for. When I’m trying to purchase something from Amazon and I just get a message informing me that my order “cannot be processed due to geographical restrictions” just because I live here in Canada instead of the USA, then it’s all I can do to keep myself from putting my fist right through my computer monitor! God help me if that ever happens to me after I’ve had a coupe of pints of draft beer, I swear.)
But if for some strange reason the current copyright holders of Raymond’s books are unwilling to make them available for purchase even in electronic form, then they should at least look for someone else willing to invest in legally buying them out and taking over the copyright ownership so as to allow the ever-increasing market for those books to purchase them legitimately.
There will always be unscrupulous pirates no matter what – just like there will always be folks who download music from torrent sites and smoke pot, etc. All well. Let’s be real. (As the JWs would probably say, “It’s Satan’s world, don’t you know.”) But, on the other hand, people shouldn’t tempt fate by lazily or stubbornly sitting on books that many people really do want and would very gladly pay for legitimately.
The current copyright holders should, as they say, either make or get off the pot and let someone else with a little more gumption take it over. That way, everyone wins, and those well-written and powerfully important books of our dear Raymond Franz could actually live on to enlighten the current new generation of JWs. I think that would show the highest respect for Raymond’s work – and I’m sure that we would all agree that would be exactly what he would have wanted!
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Non JW friends don't understand
by kozmo init never ceases to amaze me that your personal friends have no clue what it is like to have been one.
i was speaking with a friend the other day about having been a jw.
she said, oh i have a dear friend of 30 years who is one and she is so nice!
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SAHS
“stuckinarut2”: “We all just 'get it'.”
Absolutely. It reminds me of something like, say, an addiction support group comprised of recovering alcoholics or something in that if you’re not one of them yourself, that you can’t really understand or appreciate exactly what it’s like or what they’ve gone through. But among recovering alcoholics or victims of some profoundly significant and disturbing experience (such as rape, losing a child, etc., etc.), they do get it – because they can.
People who have never been in a high-control group/cult, or have never had a close family member who has, obviously can’t speak from experience, although unfortunately there are those who think that they know what it is, or isn’t, all about. But people on the outside have to be made aware of the unique challenges involved in having lived in a cult environment such as the JWs. It’s a case where a proper and telling explanation is definitely in order.
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Literature being discontinued, including Isaiah's Prophecy and Reasoning book
by Richard_I incongregations get an annual letter that tells what can be ordered for literature (it's mainly a list of audio cds/dvds for the deaf), but this time it included publications that will be discontinued, and this included the isaiah's prophecy book and the reasoning book, and i think i saw the draw close to jehovah book.
i meant to take a picture of the letter but forgot.
the branch is only going to give what they have on stock, when that stock depletes that's it, you won't be able to order those publications anymore.. this is in canada so i don't know if this is worldwide..
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SAHS
“LoveUniHateExams”: “And while we're at it, what about the ghastly Revelation Climax book? Or has the WT already discontinued that one?”
Good catch! Don’t forget those detailed, comprehensive lists of changes to the Revelation Climax! book updating all those paragraphs to be updated. I guess the one-and-only representative/mouthpiece for the Almighty God failed to get any of that right.
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Article: As religious group cashes in, former councilman lashes out
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20151217/blogs04/151219858.
as religious group cashes in, former councilman lashes out.
by erik engquist .
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SAHS
The WTS would say that they are just ‘making friends of unrighteousness riches.’ (Luke 16:9)
“A windfall for the Jehovah's Witnesses, but not the amenities they promised.” “The group’s failure to fund upgrades to a nearby park and the York Street F-train station, as promised in the deal.”
Well, I guess they forgot about letting your ‘yes mean yes and your no mean no.’ (Matt. 5:37)
So, the one-and-only representative and mouthpiece of the Almighty God is not true to its word. Hmm. I wonder if they might not actually be who they claim to be. Hmmmm.
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If you have been FINANCIALLY ABUSED by Watchtower and want to go public, read this:
by AndersonsInfo inblake ellis from cnn is looking for cult victims to interview for a story about financial abuse committed by cults.
you can contact her at: [email protected] or [email protected] if you are willing to go public with your story.. barbara .
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SAHS
Isn’t it, well, ironically funny that on the official Web site at “http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/activities/publishing/global-printing/” under “Where Does the Money Come From?” it still states the following:
“The August 1879 issue of Zion’s Watch Tower, now called The Watchtower, stated: “ ‘Zion’s Watch Tower’ has, we believe, JEHOVAH for its backer, and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support.” We still feel the same way.”
HOWEVER, as we all know, they’ve been regularly putting in their Watchtower magazine all the myriads of ways people can donate to their organization (wills, trusts, bank accounts, real estate, life insurance policies, jewellery, cheques, stocks, bonds, conditional-donation trust arrangements, gift annuities, etc., etc.) through their Charitable Planning Office, . . . . AND, now they have their own ATM debit/credit machines conveniently located at all their assembly halls, AND, there are several contribution boxes at every Kingdom Hall for this and that and the other thing, AND, they’ve even published a brochure in English and Spanish called “Charitable Planning to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide,” . . . . and not to mention all the tax-free assets, free labor, diversified investments and hedge funds using several sub-company entities, . . . . etc.
Indeed, . . . . well, . . . . just saying, . . . . Isn’t it ironically “funny”!