Science. Good old cold, hard, stark science. I.e., “humans” have been around as such for a hell of a lot longer than their bronze-age Jehoover-inspired life manual states.
Posts by SAHS
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72What Is The Watchtower's Biggest Problem?
by minimus inthe organization has many problems.
certain doctrines are problematic.
the men who run the organizaion have issues.
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72
What Is The Watchtower's Biggest Problem?
by minimus inthe organization has many problems.
certain doctrines are problematic.
the men who run the organizaion have issues.
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SAHS
The Internet is a really huge one for them now. (The second is the modern printing press.) -
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Question about visiting bethel ... akward moment at the end
by nevaagain insince there a couple of ex-bethelites here, and a lot of people from the greater ny area who have probably visited the bethel in brooklyn and patterson many times, maybe they can shed some light into this curious question we (my wife and me) have for awhile.. so a couple of years ago, we happaned to be in the states and also went to visit the bethels in brooklyn and patterson.
we had the full package, what i mean is, not only we took the tour, but we also had someone to invite us for lunch.
while we wanted to enjoy our stay there, there was always a weird feeling being there.
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SAHS
“steve2”: “I do not think it unreasonable for visitors who accept lunch invitations to offer something.”
Well, the headquarters locations have always been receiving money funnelled from all over the world, including dirt-poor African, Asian, and South-American countries. And then there are the cumulative donations from publishers into all the different contribution boxes, including the “worldwide work” fund.
Also, don’t forget that all those donations are TAX-FREE, and the Bethel labourers practically work under a SLAVE LABOUR arrangement (a vow of poverty, similar to the Catholic nuns). As well, much of the food served at those meals, including the lunch, has already been made available through raising, slaughtering, and processing of THEIR OWN homegrown cattle, pork, etc. (also operated under the same slave labour arrangement).
So, when you think of it, certainly the Bethel headquarter locations can at least afford to offer a free lunch to the odd guest – without too much undue financial hardship. As for the Bethel drones – I mean workers – well, they should rightly be putting their palms up toward their billion-dollar enterprise of which they call their “mother organization.”
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Would you ever......?
by ctrwtf inlist as an accomplishment on a resume, "i escaped from a mind control doomsday cult?".
sometimes when i reflect on it, the magnitude of this accomplishment amazes me..
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SAHS
But for the promotion of something like a book, should you choose to go that route, or for, say, the subject of a talk show or news article highlighting your struggle with escaping a cult such as the Watchtower, then I must say that you should definitely share with others the exact nature of what you’ve had to deal with. Doing so would be quite cathartic for yourself, and would also serve as a validation for those who have suffered similarly and a warning to those who might very well be able to avoid having to suffer as such at all from the get go.
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Question about visiting bethel ... akward moment at the end
by nevaagain insince there a couple of ex-bethelites here, and a lot of people from the greater ny area who have probably visited the bethel in brooklyn and patterson many times, maybe they can shed some light into this curious question we (my wife and me) have for awhile.. so a couple of years ago, we happaned to be in the states and also went to visit the bethels in brooklyn and patterson.
we had the full package, what i mean is, not only we took the tour, but we also had someone to invite us for lunch.
while we wanted to enjoy our stay there, there was always a weird feeling being there.
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SAHS
“DesirousOfChange”: “They are taught to "glean" off of the "surplus" of the flock.”
I’m pretty sure that “Judge” Franklin Rutherford would heartily agree with you! He had people all over the world, including dirt-poor countries like South America and Africa, funnelling money to his own ivory castle of “Beth Serim” in San Diego. He had two of the most expensive luxury Cadillacs in all of California – 16-cylinder Fisher Fleetwood Cadillac coupes.
Um, yes, I would say that that charlatan buffoon would certainly qualify as ‘gleaning off the surplus of the flock.’
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SAHS
That article is right on the money! It describes the leaders of the Watchtower organization to a tee. They use charm (i.e., the sparkling new “JW Broadcasting” studio thing), manipulation (i.e., threatening that people will “die at Armageddon” if they don’t smarten up and do what they’re told), and blackmail (i.e., forbidding any contact with family members if they willfully break any of the many, many rules of the Watchtower leaders).
They continually exploit people by demanding that they recruit more members by pounding the pavement in a pathetic show of loyalty to God’s one-and-only true organization in all the earth.
And toxic? Well, just Google “Jehovah’s Witnesses” and “depression,” as well as “trauma” and “suicide.”
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You must not say Gee, Gee wiz, or Golly
by Truth and Justice inbefore i start my subject post, i like to extend a warm welcome to all the new members that have joined the site.
i just can't keep up with all the new names.
nice to see all of you here.. i haven't posted anything in a while because of work, scheduling and everything else, but i do have some interesting thoughts that i would like to share with all of you in the coming months.
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SAHS
“Truth and Justice”: “She says, "I know, but we're told not to say those things."”
That just sums it all up. Millions of JWs blindly comply with all of those myriads of petty little rules just because, as they will say, “We’re told not to by the faithful and discreet slave” (whatever the issue may be, such as not saying “good luck,” or “gesundheit” or “bless you” after someone sneezes, throwing rice or confetti at weddings, toasting, etc., etc.). And that’s it. JWs are too scared to even question the governing body whatsoever. It’s the same kind of thinking where if the governing body says “jump,” then they’ll just automatically say, “How high?”
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Why facts fail to reach the faithful, (even the intelligent ones)
by done4good ini posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
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SAHS
“David_Jay”: “Religion is not always based around a cult of worship, nor do they all include deities or even an afterlife eschatology. Jainism for example is a humanist form of religion with no deity. The Jewish Sadducees as well many Jews today do not believe in an afterlife, and even those who do see no relevance in living with it as a goal in mind. Buddhism is a religion that seeks to free a person of all notions of and desires for eternity and has no central deity for worship.”
That’s a good point. There are certainly a variety of types and structures of religion. Although, unfortunately, a high-control, totalitarian bent seems to have been the norm with monolithic organized religion as a whole, which I believe is a manifestation of the fundamental human characteristic of securing power and control over others (which some would categorize as a self-serving “defect of character”).
“David_Jay”: “Religion is not the opposite of atheism.”
True, at least not necessarily. But the most major and significant distinction with regard to religion is this: Religion and spirituality are most definitely not necessarily the same thing. Religion tends to demand everyone’s exclusive devotion to a leader or group (albeit with some exceptions, as you noted above), whereas spirituality, as an abstract concept, is something which is always available to each individual, regardless of whichever ambient religious climate he or she may find him- or herself geographically. I think of spirituality itself as a metaphysical state which emerges from within one’s own unique cognitive processes. It is really a basic personal philosophy of living which promotes serenity through acceptance of one’s own place in the universe and harmony within one’s environment. Personal spirituality allows the individual to espouse basic altruistic yet practical codes of conduct and social interaction which are completely separate and independent of any organized body acting as a custodian and dictator of belief, ritual, and conduct. Spirituality is the formation and operation of one’s own deeply personal psyche of human consciousness which allows a person to function with some degree of positive and beneficial thought, emotion, and action within oneself and toward others. In other words, spirituality is simply that which works toward general harmony, fulfillment, and peace. And to that end, really no specific organized structure of religion is necessary!
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Why facts fail to reach the faithful, (even the intelligent ones)
by done4good ini posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
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SAHS
Why even very intelligent people have arbitrary faith-based “beliefs” as opposed to just cold, hard facts seems to be a kind of coping mechanism. Analogous is that the very first phase of the “grieving process” is protecting oneself from uncomfortable feelings and internal sensations arising from inevitable unsavoury facts, especially as it pertains to ones own death or that of a loved one.
In such case, the fanciful becomes the stalwart crutch of the fragile psyche of the advanced brain. As the OP brought out, “Belief can, and often does trump fact.”
I believe that religion was something contrived by man as a way to satisfy specific needs emerging from the basic deficiencies, or weaknesses, of human character; namely, the need for fatherly security, redemption, and a primal sense of the “eternal.” I believe that Sigmund Freud was right in that the concept or notion of an almighty “God” is something invented by people to satisfy, or replace, an innately yearned-for “father figure,” which engenders an albeit false sense of survival and permanence.
It is the old adage that “truth is stranger than fiction” – and any kind of profound comfort for the “soul” of the human condition becomes the only palatable goal of which is sought by all levels of intellect alike.