Posts by OrphanCrow

16

Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

by OrphanCrow in

about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

OrphanCrow

SSS: You're clearly interested in African history and the impact religion has had on it so when I get back from vacation I'll go through my books and put together a list of recommended reading if you like (we get back tomorrow so I'll have a good list for you by Tuesday).

Cool. I like reading lists and recommendations.

The African "squirrel" is one that I chase on occasion! I have an interest in world politics and the history of politics in Africa is one that has interesed me for many years, long before I knew much about anything political other than what the WTS had written. I think I have always wanted to untangle the political web from the old red "Babylon the Great" book that I had to read when I was in grade school!

A friend of mine gave me this book to read:

Ways of Staying (by Kevin Bloom)

Over the years, the position of the white South African inside the country could either be labelled a curse or a blessing. Unlike their black fellow countrymen who were tied down by ancestry, when trouble came knocking, whites could always haul out the passports and ‘pack for Perth’. In Ways of Staying (published in 2010 by Portobello Books), South African journalist Kevin Bloom ponders ways of staying even when circumstances motivate for the chicken run.
The book was inspired by the gruesome murder of his cousin, Richard Bloom and his partner, actor Brett Goldin in Cape Town. He takes the reader by the hand into the inner circle of the extended Bloom family as they weigh their options, presented by the brutal murder of their son, brother and cousin.

I have aquaintences here in Canada who come fromSouth Africa and who still have family there. I was attempting to understand some of their stories. The book is very good.

16

Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

by OrphanCrow in

about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

OrphanCrow

SSS: Christianity and Islam have played a huge role in the shaping and destruction of African cultures. The fact that missionaries were a necessary part of successful colonization was not lost on those rebelling against colonialism and imperialism.

Religious missionaries have always been used as a front line colonial assimilation tool. And especially since the advent of the printed word which makes the spread of political ideoology under the guise of "religious insruction" particulary powerful.

And let's not forget Heinrich Himmler, the leader of the Nazi SS, whose post-war plans included using the Jehovah's Witnesses as a way to keep Germany's conquered lands under control. He was especially impressed with their ideology of loyalty and non-poltical stance.

SSS: From the very early uprisings in Africa (particularly the Mau Mau uprising) missionaries were particularly targeted for being associated with colonialism and I can't say I blame them.

The WTS has had a presence in Africa almost since the very beginning of the Bible Student movement. I don't have all the dates and such...this is from my "cole's notes/memory"...but from what I can recollect, the WTS lost control of the Bible Students in Africa quite early in the 20th C. It was only later...not sure the year, after much political turmoil involving the political influence that the JWs/WT movement had in African politics, that the New York WT Society got control of the JWs in Africa again after making deals with African governments.

...or something like that.

The Jehovah's Witnesses/WT movement in Africa is still fairly fractured, with offshoots emerging and/or still hanging on to the WTS control.

16

Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

by OrphanCrow in

about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

OrphanCrow

This book looks like it could be an interesting read:

A Complicated War: The Harrowing of Mozambique (Perspectives on Southern Africa)

A Complicated War combines frontline reporting, personal narrative, political analysis, and comparative scholarship to present a picture of a Mozambique harrowed by profound local conflicts—ethnic, religious, political and personal. Finnegan writes that South Africa's domination and destabilization are basic elements of Mozambique's plight, but he offers a subtle description and analysis that will allow us to see the post-apartheid region from a new, more realistic, if less comfortable, point of view.

The book was published in 1992 and the author, William Finnegan, mentions an encounter with the Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi during his visit to Africa. I have not read the book yet, but this is the quote from Google books:

...As we neared Phalombe, we passed a big, extremely neat, canico village. "Jehovah's Witnesses," Tauzene said. The village was obviously new and looked unusually well built. The huts were large with separate cookiing huts, separate shower huts with L-shaped entrances, graneries, gardens full of greens, wells with fences around them and stairways down into them, latrines that were clearly well reinforced. "they are very industrious," Tauzene said.
They are more than that. A veteran correspondent living in Zimbabwe once told me that the only thing that united nearly all African governments was their hatred and persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses. Frelimo had expelled thousands from the cities. Many of those Mozambican Witnesses had ended up fleeing from Remino into Malawi, where the persecution was actually worse. A large number of Malawian Witnesses had been reportedly killed in 1967 for refusing to pledge allegiance to the Banda governement and more than one thousand fled into Mozambique. The Witnesses living near Phalombe, I had heard, were Malawians who had fled to Mozambique and had recently come back - on the assumption that they would be safe from persecution if they lived near the big refugee camps that were getting all the international attention. If they actually had only recently returned to Malawi, they would have had to cross.....

...and that is where the next page is missing. I guess I will have to try to get the book.

16

Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

by OrphanCrow in

about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

OrphanCrow

millie: OC: Did you happen to see the letter from a government authority to the UN concerning the persecution in Malawi already being over by the time JWs were writing letters about it back in 75?

Yes, I have seen that letter. I have it someplace in my archives.

The history of the WT movement in Africa is very interesting and it is rooted in African politics far more than most people realize.

I have run across several scholarly research papers about issues pertaining to the WT movement in Africa, especially concerning literacy and politics.

Because entire villages in certain areas of Africa are almost totally made up of Jehovah's Witnesses, they make for an interesting study of social and political behavior.

Here is a paper that I particulary enjoyed (thank you to Oubilette for sending me the pdf!):

Ways of reading as religious power in print globalization
Authors
THOMAS G. KIRSCH
First published: August 2007
Abstract
In this article, I address issues of power with regard to religious print media distributed worldwide. I show that mission societies seek to ensure a homogenous interpretation of their publications by making them “obligatory passage points” for socioreligious advancement and standardizing literacy practices. Once successfully established, networks created through religious print media evolve as a twofold process in which the construction of power by media distributors and their audiences' seeking of empowerment form an integrated whole. In this trajectory, literacy practices bridge local and global realms by enabling extensive religious networking based on the shared use of print media.

Kirsch's research focuses on the local population in the Gwembe Valley in Zambia. He compares and contrasts the JW community with the Apostolic community practice.

Oops...I got a little off topic there. It is difficult to speak about the WTS in Africa without getting sidetracked - there is so much WTS history and political influence there. The "mining of the wealth (in souls, religiously speaking) by the Org of Africa" has been going on for a long, long time.

16

Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

by OrphanCrow in

about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

OrphanCrow

SSS: Zim is a spectacularly beautiful country in dire need of foreign investment but thanks to Madman Mugabe, that likely won't happen for some time.

Yes, it is a beautiful country. About 15 years ago, I had a family member who owned land just outside Harare and she was always trying to get me to visit. She sent me photos of her home and the beauty of her farm was incredible. Except for the six foot black mamba they found in their house one day!

I never wanted to visit - at the time, and since, the political upheaval and human atrocities being committed in that country were so disturbing. However, my step mother-in-law would visit there. She returned once from a visit and told us how she had met Mugabe and shook his hand. She said, "He was such a nice man."

Wow. My mouth hit the floor when she dropped that bomb. How could she even not know what was happening in that country?? Mind you, it might have had something to do with what her daughter was doing for the government as a commodity trader in maize at the time.

I find the WTS involvement in Zimbawe to be very interesting. Their handshaking with Mugabe would result in the very same reaction - "Oh, he is such a very nice man!".

Yeah...well...as the crows would say - birds of a feather...

16

Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

by OrphanCrow in

about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

OrphanCrow

About a month ago, I had started a thread about a video the WTS had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for Zimbabwe.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq

The video in that thread is no longer online.

The following article highlights the relgious tourism that the Jehovah's Witnesses have brought to Africa.

African govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: Mzembi

African governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, Tourism minister Walter Mzembi has said.

Mzembi, who is also United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) chairman of the Commission for Africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that Zimbabwe’s projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.

He advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that Jehovah’s Witnesses who thronged Zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.

“Jehovah’s Witnesses held their international convention in Harare. In fact, this organisation set a fine example of how church organisations should behave, peaceable, orderly, in such a manner that gave a fine ministry of their God, while boosting the country’s tourism receipts,” he said.

52

After Death Communications in the JW community

by jack2312 in

my name is jack and i'm looking for after death communications from the jehovah witness community.

an after death communication (or adc) is when a loved one sends a kind of message to this side of life after their death.

it can be a dream or smell (like perfume or roses that would be attached to them in memory) or a feeling of their presence.

OrphanCrow

Jack: Crow and Lost
The way I see it, although I understand your position/view, if it happens in front of you and shakes your world to the core....then maybe there's room for another interpretation.

I wasn't explaining "my" position, Jack. I was explaining the JW cult doctrine. Period.

And, if "it" happens in front of a practising (or not) JW...it will not open up another interpretation other than demon activity. There is no wiggle room in the JW cult. There is no "maybe".

52

After Death Communications in the JW community

by jack2312 in

my name is jack and i'm looking for after death communications from the jehovah witness community.

an after death communication (or adc) is when a loved one sends a kind of message to this side of life after their death.

it can be a dream or smell (like perfume or roses that would be attached to them in memory) or a feeling of their presence.

OrphanCrow

Jack, I think that this forum may not be the place to encounter people who have had experiences with "the other side". You are in a community of people who have had indoctrination that negates those kind of experiences that you describe.

In the JW cult, "other side" experiences/communications are viewed as "communication from demons" or "demon activity".

If somebody who is either still a JW, or is an exJW who has not deprogrammed, has an unexplained experience, the first thing they will do is pray to Jehovah to protect them from Satan.

JWs believe that when a person dies, they have no agency - they are "sleeping".

*Lostgeneration...I posted at the same time!

10

Trolley Cart effectiveness

by freddo in

jw
friends

does anyone here who goes to meetings know of anyone who comes to their meetings after being contacted on the trolleys?

anyone hear of a real bible study from these carts?.

exaggerations from the assembly platform or jw urban myths do not count!.

OrphanCrow

The trolley carts might not be effective for actually making converts. But, the trolley witnessing is effective in conforming to laws in countries where "preaching" is restricted.

In Russia, it was the trolley witnessing that got JWs acquitted in court.

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2100

By contrast, at least two of the eight Jehovah's Witnesses stopped by police as they offered religious literature to passers-by on the streets of Simferopol on 2 July were acquitted in court, according to court records.
Police stopped the Jehovah's Witnesses as they were offering religious literature from mobile stands, according to court decisions seen by Forum 18. Officers claimed they were violating Russia's June 2004 Demonstrations Law. They drew up records of an offence under Administrative Code Article 20.2, Part 1. The cases were then passed to court.
At separate hearings on 30 July in front of Judge Aleksei Tikhopoi at Simferopol's Kiev District Court, both O. Shchelokova and E. Lyskova insisted that their right to offer religious literature is protected by the Russian Constitution and the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms.
Shchelokova's lawyer told the Judge in her case that "during the religious activity, no slogans or calls of any kind were made, no agitation, propaganda or imposition of any religious views or ideas was conducted, banned religious literature was not distributed, no financial collections to support a religious organisation were undertaken, and no loudspeakers were used. The activity of her client did not form a danger to those around, and did not create a real threat of harm to the object being protected."
In choosing to acquit Shchelokova and Lyskova of any wrongdoing, Judge Tikhopoi specifically acknowledged individuals' right to freedom of religion or belief laid out in Article 9 of the European Convention.

Effective? Yes. In certain countries, trolleys are the only effective way that the WTS can establish a presence.

41

When you read this Richard Glossip will probably be dead.

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

how do i feel about this?.

too much doubt.. shame on you people who are responsible for putting richard to death.. richard is scheduled to be put to death in oklahoma at 3pm on september 16th by lethal injection.

i have followed this case and feel like so many people very bad about this.

OrphanCrow

Sahs: “OrphanCrow”: “The FACT is innocent people are put to death,”

Sigh. Here we go again. I did not say that. Please...check the quote and reference the correct poster.

No, Dr. Phil chose to highlight this case because it is compelling as an important sociological, legal justice, and human rights/fairness issue which potentially impacts all of us.

Reading this article may give you another perspective on the case:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/richard-glossip-case-here-s-the-story-of-his-victim/article_1247f4c4-a8be-5492-b438-1c5d39c8b571.html

From that article:

“The issue is whether a man who has been given every opportunity provided by our legal system should be given another 60 days to do what his attorneys could not do in nearly two decades. … Talk shows, Hollywood, and petition campaigns should not be allowed to undermine the authority given by our Constitution to our courts.”