Posts by OrphanCrow

28

How Cultish are the JW's?

by xjwsrock in

first off, i certainly agree the jw's are a cult.

but i'm sensitive to black-and-white thinking now.. so, where do they rank on the scale?

think of a cultish religion scale from 0-10.. consider the likes of unitarian universalism vs baptist vs amish vs charles manson.. where do you think jw's fall on the scale?.

OrphanCrow

Sabin: You have to now consider not only literal life but also psychological. So a person die's from saying no to blood is one, the trauma caused to the family is many. A person commits suicide is one, the trauma caused to the family is many. ETC. you get my point.

Yes, the ripples that the no blood doctrine has left in its wake are immeasurable.

We can try to calculate the number dead but that does not account for those who survived without blood but with long term problems associated with oxygen deprivation or from the side effects of alternative and experimental procedures and drugs being used on them.

It does not account for the children left without mothers or fathers, families who have lost children, or for the health care professionals who have had to watch needless deaths.

One of the factors that professionals look at when determining where on the "grey scale" of 'cultishness' is the degree of violence or potential for violence that the cult's beliefs generate. I think that the ensuing violence that occurs, when someone who has been given limited choices chooses to die, can be measured in the violence inflicted upon the survivors left behind to deal with the aftermath.

15

Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

OrphanCrow

steve2: My apologies for making this way more complicated than it is.

Sokay, Steve.

Blame it on the title of the thread - "disfellowshipped daughter". The OP set the stage for you and others who allowed the inaccurate title to influence your perceptions.

A good example, though, of how elements of assumption can be built into the interpretation of a clear legal document if you don't pay attention.

:)

15

Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

OrphanCrow

talesin: It sounds like the grandparents are trying to 'replace' their son, lost to Satan (hahaha) with their grandchild (not hahaha, but manipulative and disgusts me.)

Just think of the kudos they will be earning from their like minded JWs. "witnessing" to that poor little worldly child, saving her from the spawn of Satan.

This showed up on jwtalk about this case:

"Krusso, on 24 Oct 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:I don't think this is a case of being anti witnesses. If another religion was involved, the same legal principles would apply. Parents are the ones responsible for teaching their children, not grand parents. And they should respect te parents wishes. You can teach by conduct and example. It does not necessarily includes taking to the meetings or field service. If the parent said no, try other routes to touch the heart. Hiring an attorney to try to impose your ideas was not a wise decision. I hope it establishes a precedent for future reference."
reply:
Great post, yes if it was me in this position, knowing the feelings of the daughter, if I was allowed access to my grandchildren i would respect the wishes of the parent, and just talk about the new system with the child while at my home. There are more ways to witness than to go through processes knowing it would cause trouble.
If I as a grandparent became guardian due to parents being unfit parents then that's a totally different story.

The second poster just doesn't get it. How stupid and myopically self-centered. She reveals the manipulations and deceptions that she will willingly undertake in order to continue to reform her grandchildren to her way of thinking.

How does this statement make any sense whatsoever???:

"i would respect the wishes of the parent, and just talk about the new system with the child while at my home"

15

Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

OrphanCrow

talesin: ...Reading comprehension ...... ack.

Yeah...where are those bibble trained skills when you need them, huh?

;p

15

Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

OrphanCrow

steve2: ...the child's mother, a disfellowshipped Witness,..

Please, somebody pleeeassse, help me out here.

Where are you getting the idea that the mother was a "disfellowshipped Witness"??

I must have missed that salient point and I have read the article and the judgement several times.

Please point out to me where I have missed that detail.

52

Deaf Aotearoa flooded with complaints about Jehovah's Witness church

by OrphanCrow in

deaf aotearoa flooded with complaints about jehovah's witness churchkashka tunstalllast updated 15:22, october 6 2015deaf aotearoa has asked the jehovah's witness church to respond to claims of a deaf information database.new zealand's deaf community is fed up with unsolicited house calls, claiming the jehovah's witness church is targeting deaf households.deaf aotearoa has received multiple complaints from around the country and says church members visited certain homes because they were aware a deaf person lived there.

the organisation released a statement on monday, saying it was looking into the possibility the church holds a database listing the details of members of the deaf community.jehovah witness spokesman rod spinks said there was no such database and deaf people were not being targeted.the deaf aotearoa statement was posted on the group's facebook page, and received a flood of comments from frustrated people.one woman said a group of jehovah's witnesses had come to her house and asked "for the deaf person who lives here.

" she said they refused to explain how they had her details and didn't visit her neighbours.another said church members had turned up at her work and asked for her by name.hamilton man royce flynn said he had been visited six times over the last nine months, despite repeatedly saying he was uninterested in the house calls.he said the church members were always able to sign and also brought deaf people along, which lead him to believe he was being singled out.flynn said contacted local police, who told him it was a privacy issue and referred him on to the office of the privacy commissioner.he said he had been been in contact with local labour member of parliament sue moroney.deaf aotearoa acting chief executive jill dean said complaints about the church were a recurring issue.

OrphanCrow

ellaella: YES ,we had a list of where to go for deaf people and I know the Interpreters working in the schools, when able to underhandedly get where the kids lived, wow!!! all of a sudden interpreters of theirs, from school would show up at their doors. It would be very very hard to shake your own school interpreter from visiting you since you knew you would be seeing them in a day or two in the front of your classroom.

That is why privacy laws have been enacted and the misuse of personal information is a prosecutable offense in most countries.

The JWs are notorious for breaching confidential information laws when it suits their purposes yet will claim the same umbrella of protection for themselves. This is an abuse of power and an infringement on personal rights to privacy.

15

Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

OrphanCrow

Usualusername, the title to your thread is misleading.

It seems like that may have been the case in this story too, as it took the mother a while to confront her parents who were trying to recruit their grandchild.

The woman who fought these JWs in court was not 1.) their daughter and 2.) was never disfellowshipped. She had never been a JW and her daughter was the JWs' grandchild through their disfellowshipped son, who the JW grandparents shunned.

The mother of the child had allowed access to her child by the grandparents simply because it was what she felt was important to the child. She certainly did understand boundaries - that is why this matter ended up in court.

It is not fair to pigeonhole and blame the mother when the blame rests squarely on the grandparents for not respecting the mother or the child's boundaries. The mother and the child were victimized by the JW grandparents and the mother was not to blame.

29

Mark Sanderson Background and Warwick

by TakeOffTheCrown in

mark sanderson - here is some insight on his background taken from this site:.

http://e-watchman.com/congratulations-mark/.

congratulations, mark!.

OrphanCrow

truthexplorer: I wonder if Warwick will become like some of the half built housing estates of Spain or Ireland when money stopped flowing

...and future generations will sneak over the compound fences on midnight excursions to conduct paranormal investigations, returning with accounts of Sanderson's ghost haunting the half built structures and faint strains of "The Happy Dance" being heard amongst the ruins.

29

Mark Sanderson Background and Warwick

by TakeOffTheCrown in

mark sanderson - here is some insight on his background taken from this site:.

http://e-watchman.com/congratulations-mark/.

congratulations, mark!.

OrphanCrow

truthseeker: A special pioneer in Newfoundland. I have often said that I've never met a Newfoundlander that I didn't like but maybe there could be an occasional exception to that rule. I wonder if he was able to gain fluency in Nefoundlandese LOL.

Haha!

No wonder Sanderson is so goofy...he was a temporary Newfie! That explains it all. That is why he is "special". It's the Newfie influence - it changed him forever.

I love Newfies.

Hey. Maybe Sanderson can work on translating the WT into the native language of Newfoundland. That would be special. The WTS could claim they are preserving the local language and get some sort of award from the Canadian government for it.

28

How Cultish are the JW's?

by xjwsrock in

first off, i certainly agree the jw's are a cult.

but i'm sensitive to black-and-white thinking now.. so, where do they rank on the scale?

think of a cultish religion scale from 0-10.. consider the likes of unitarian universalism vs baptist vs amish vs charles manson.. where do you think jw's fall on the scale?.

OrphanCrow

xjwsrock: OrphanCrow I haven't thought of the org like that, but you're right. They really are a subtle version of the suicide cults. That's a sobering thought.

Yes, it is.

I have not given a score yet for "degree of cultiness" of the JWs, but after some thought I am going to give them a solid 10.

They hit all the points of "what is a cult?" to some degree or another, but what puts it over to the far end of the scale for me is the blood refusal/suicide requirement that has been, and continues to be, demanded of WTS followers.

The cults most easily thought of as "extreme" are the suicide cults and there is no doubt that the JWs are a suicide cult. And a cult of child sacrifice.

It is difficult to establish the magnitude of the number of "suicides" and "child sacrifices" that have been "willingly" entered into on the part of thought reformed JWs, but the following quote gives an estimate:

http://www.anzca.edu.au/resources/college-publications/pdfs/ANZCA%20Blue%20Book%202011%20P6.pdf

It is estimated that approximately 1000 Jehovah’s Witnesses die annually worldwide and as many as 100,000 may have died by abstaining from blood transfusions since the blood ban was introduced in 1945.

So, to put that into the context of "degree of extremity" and compare those numbers to the suicide cults that we readily label as a "10" on the 'cult index', the yearly estimated sucides by JWs are almost in line with the total number of victims of the following three cults:

Heaven's Gate - 39 victims

Jonestown - 918

Solar Temple - 74

Those three suicide cults together claimed 1,031 victims.

The JW blood cult can boast that number all by itself in a single year. Year after year....after year. Jws have been dying following a cult doctrine for 70 years.

Yes. The JWs are a resounding 10 the way I figure it. Just because most of their victims are invisible and silent doesn't mean that the magnitude of the harm that the WTS blood cult doctrine is responsible for should be overlooked.