OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  49

  Dissenters in Watchtower History: Differing Departures

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.

  through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.

  fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.

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  OrphanCrow

  Two dissenters that were key in my personal journey of 'deprogramming' were Gary and Heather Botting, exJWs and the authors of The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. The book was published in 1984.

  http://www.amazon.ca/The-Orwellian-World-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802065457

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Botting
  

  Gary Norman Arthur Botting (born 19 July 1943)[1] is a Canadian legal scholar and criminal defense lawyer as well as a poet, playwright and critic of literature and religion, in particular Jehovah's Witnesses. The author of more than 30 books, he is one of the country's leading authorities on extradition law.[2] He is said to have had "more experience in battling the extradition system than any other Canadian lawyer."[3][4]

  Gary and Heather are now divorced and Heather has remarried.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Botting

  Heather Denise Botting, née Harden, born 21 September 1948, is a professor of anthropology at the University of Victoria in British Columbia. The original high priestess of Coven Celeste, she is a founding elder of the Canadian Aquarian Tabernacle Church[1] and was the first recognized Wiccan chaplain in a public university.[2]
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  49

  Dissenters in Watchtower History: Differing Departures

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.

  through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.

  fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.

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  OrphanCrow

  Another WT dissenter:

  Conrad C. Binkele - the director of the European Watch Tower Offices. Appointed by Russell in 1916, had a falling out with Rutherford in 1925, and founded the Free Bible Students in Germany in 1928. The Free Bible Students were banned in 1933 in Germany.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_C._Binkele
  
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  137

  Something interesting!

  by John Aquila in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was invited to a small get-together by a long time friend.

  we both served as elders for years.

  he is in his late 70s.

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  OrphanCrow

  Heaven: The only result from oppression is revolution and change. This group had a huge schism occur back in the 1920s, guess it's time for another one.

  Yeah...but the sad thing is what emerged from that schism. Or maybe I should say the horrifying thing. Don't forget that from that early schism arose the Jehovah's Witnesses.

  And from this new 'huge' schism, will arise the new and improved "JW..org".

  Yay! A new cyber religion. From which even more offshoots and splinters can kaleidoscope off into the future.

  And in the meantime...the leopard will have changed its spots...where oh where will the Watchtower hide next? What form will the Watchtower Society take on? Where is it hiding now?
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  137

  Something interesting!

  by John Aquila in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was invited to a small get-together by a long time friend.

  we both served as elders for years.

  he is in his late 70s.

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  OrphanCrow

  The phenomena of splinter breakaway groups of Jehovah's Witnesses is one that is pretty quiet but it does exist. The WT claims unity but historically, splinter groups have been happening since the beginning of Russell's time and have continued to form right up until today.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/20779/splinter-groups?page=1

  http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/reply/297149/Sects-of-Jehovahs-witnesses#reply-297149
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  15

  Watchtower HATES being compared to Catholic Church - but if the shoe fits...

  by Zoos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  remember this?.

  .

  well how about this?.

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  OrphanCrow

  The JWs are Catholic "apostates".

  In the Catholic faith, an adherent that is excommunicated is prohibited from taking communion. The JWs are "volunteer" excommunicated Catholics and they display that by refusing to take communion - they pass the wine and bread right on by.
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  63

  Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.

  not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.

  also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.

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  OrphanCrow

  Blondie, the WT quote you posed is very disturbing. It basically gives instructions on how to bypass a minor child's legal guardians in order to recruit the child. And all justified with the bible/jehovah/WT.

  I have a question. When a child engages in infant baptism* in WT land, is a signature/permission required from their legal guardian(s)?

  In a legal sense, a baptism that involves a child is considered "infant baptism" - or "pedobaptism".

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism
  

  Infant baptism[1][2] is the practice of baptising infants or young children. In theological discussions, the practice is sometimes referred to as paedobaptism or pedobaptism from the Greek pais meaning "child". The practice is sometimes contrasted with what is called "believer's baptism", or credobaptism, from the Latin word credo meaning "I believe", which is the religious practice of baptising only individuals who personally confess faith in Jesus, therefore excluding underage children. Infant baptism is also called christening by some faith traditions.

  In spite of the WT asserting that they don't practice infant baptism, they do. All people who are underage are infants. The legal term for a minor child is "infant". Many Christian churches practice infant baptism. But, here is the difference: in the mainstream churches, a baptism of a minor child is not a contract between the child and the church - it is a contract between the child's parents/guardians and the church.

  In the JWs, they ignore the legal boundaries of the age of consent, and in effect, initiate the child into adulthood long before their legal childhood is over. This seems to, somehow, mirror the attitude of adults who ignore the sexual boundaries of children as well. The JWs have no sense of what are appropriate boundaries between adulthood and childhood. It plays out publicly in the way they view baptism and it plays out privately in their child abuse activites.
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  28

  How Cultish are the JW's?

  by xjwsrock in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  first off, i certainly agree the jw's are a cult.

  but i'm sensitive to black-and-white thinking now.. so, where do they rank on the scale?

  think of a cultish religion scale from 0-10.. consider the likes of unitarian universalism vs baptist vs amish vs charles manson.. where do you think jw's fall on the scale?.

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  OrphanCrow

  Sabin: You have to now consider not only literal life but also psychological. So a person die's from saying no to blood is one, the trauma caused to the family is many. A person commits suicide is one, the trauma caused to the family is many. ETC. you get my point.

  Yes, the ripples that the no blood doctrine has left in its wake are immeasurable.

  We can try to calculate the number dead but that does not account for those who survived without blood but with long term problems associated with oxygen deprivation or from the side effects of alternative and experimental procedures and drugs being used on them.

  It does not account for the children left without mothers or fathers, families who have lost children, or for the health care professionals who have had to watch needless deaths.

  One of the factors that professionals look at when determining where on the "grey scale" of 'cultishness' is the degree of violence or potential for violence that the cult's beliefs generate. I think that the ensuing violence that occurs, when someone who has been given limited choices chooses to die, can be measured in the violence inflicted upon the survivors left behind to deal with the aftermath.
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  15

  Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

  by usualusername1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

  a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

  provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

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  OrphanCrow

  steve2: My apologies for making this way more complicated than it is.

  Sokay, Steve.

  Blame it on the title of the thread - "disfellowshipped daughter". The OP set the stage for you and others who allowed the inaccurate title to influence your perceptions.

  A good example, though, of how elements of assumption can be built into the interpretation of a clear legal document if you don't pay attention.

  :)
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  15

  Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

  by usualusername1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

  a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

  provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

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  OrphanCrow

  talesin: It sounds like the grandparents are trying to 'replace' their son, lost to Satan (hahaha) with their grandchild (not hahaha, but manipulative and disgusts me.)

  Just think of the kudos they will be earning from their like minded JWs. "witnessing" to that poor little worldly child, saving her from the spawn of Satan.

  This showed up on jwtalk about this case:

  "Krusso, on 24 Oct 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:I don't think this is a case of being anti witnesses. If another religion was involved, the same legal principles would apply. Parents are the ones responsible for teaching their children, not grand parents. And they should respect te parents wishes. You can teach by conduct and example. It does not necessarily includes taking to the meetings or field service. If the parent said no, try other routes to touch the heart. Hiring an attorney to try to impose your ideas was not a wise decision. I hope it establishes a precedent for future reference."

  reply:
  Great post, yes if it was me in this position, knowing the feelings of the daughter, if I was allowed access to my grandchildren i would respect the wishes of the parent, and just talk about the new system with the child while at my home. There are more ways to witness than to go through processes knowing it would cause trouble.
  If I as a grandparent became guardian due to parents being unfit parents then that's a totally different story.

  The second poster just doesn't get it. How stupid and myopically self-centered. She reveals the manipulations and deceptions that she will willingly undertake in order to continue to reform her grandchildren to her way of thinking.

  How does this statement make any sense whatsoever???:

  "i would respect the wishes of the parent, and just talk about the new system with the child while at my home"
  
  
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  15

  Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

  by usualusername1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

  a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

  provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

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  OrphanCrow

  talesin: ...Reading comprehension ...... ack.

  Yeah...where are those bibble trained skills when you need them, huh?

  ;p