i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.
through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.
fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.
slimfatboy: Fascinating, thanks, I'd never heard of Binkele!
I was thinking there must be some good non-American examples - I just don't know about them.
Funny thing is, though, Binkele was an American born German. It is interesting that his group of German Free Bible Students, who were never associated with the WTS, wore the purple triangles in the German WW2 camps. And Binkele's Free Bible Students would now be counted by the WTS as "JWs". The WTS now claims all purple triangles as their own.
i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.
through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.
fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.
slimfatboy: There was a break away group in Australia and Hungary and another in Nigeria wasn't there? I don't know the names of the movers and shakers.
Yes, you are right.
If you want to research something pretty interesting concerning breakaways and dissenters, etc, then just goggle "Watchtower movement in Africa". Try it with a space as well: Watch Tower Movement. The WT breakaways in African countries have had a political impact historically, with the WTS in NY finally making deals with some of the African governments to bring the WT 'sects' in Africa under control of the Society in order to stabilize some areas.
i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.
through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.
fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.
Two dissenters that were key in my personal journey of 'deprogramming' were Gary and Heather Botting, exJWs and the authors of The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. The book was published in 1984.
http://www.amazon.ca/The-Orwellian-World-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802065457
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Botting
Gary Norman Arthur Botting (born 19 July 1943)[1] is a Canadian legal scholar and criminal defense lawyer as well as a poet, playwright and critic of literature and religion, in particular Jehovah's Witnesses. The author of more than 30 books, he is one of the country's leading authorities on extradition law.[2] He is said to have had "more experience in battling the extradition system than any other Canadian lawyer."[3][4]
Gary and Heather are now divorced and Heather has remarried.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Botting
Heather Denise Botting, née Harden, born 21 September 1948, is a professor of anthropology at the University of Victoria in British Columbia. The original high priestess of Coven Celeste, she is a founding elder of the Canadian Aquarian Tabernacle Church[1] and was the first recognized Wiccan chaplain in a public university.[2]
i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.
through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.
fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.
Another WT dissenter:
Conrad C. Binkele - the director of the European Watch Tower Offices. Appointed by Russell in 1916, had a falling out with Rutherford in 1925, and founded the Free Bible Students in Germany in 1928. The Free Bible Students were banned in 1933 in Germany.
i was invited to a small get-together by a long time friend.
we both served as elders for years.
he is in his late 70s.
Heaven: The only result from oppression is revolution and change. This group had a huge schism occur back in the 1920s, guess it's time for another one.
Yeah...but the sad thing is what emerged from that schism. Or maybe I should say the horrifying thing. Don't forget that from that early schism arose the Jehovah's Witnesses.
And from this new 'huge' schism, will arise the new and improved "JW..org".
Yay! A new cyber religion. From which even more offshoots and splinters can kaleidoscope off into the future.
And in the meantime...the leopard will have changed its spots...where oh where will the Watchtower hide next? What form will the Watchtower Society take on? Where is it hiding now?
i was invited to a small get-together by a long time friend.
we both served as elders for years.
he is in his late 70s.
The phenomena of splinter breakaway groups of Jehovah's Witnesses is one that is pretty quiet but it does exist. The WT claims unity but historically, splinter groups have been happening since the beginning of Russell's time and have continued to form right up until today.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/20779/splinter-groups?page=1
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/reply/297149/Sects-of-Jehovahs-witnesses#reply-297149
remember this?.
.
well how about this?.
The JWs are Catholic "apostates".
In the Catholic faith, an adherent that is excommunicated is prohibited from taking communion. The JWs are "volunteer" excommunicated Catholics and they display that by refusing to take communion - they pass the wine and bread right on by.
there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.
not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.
also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.
Blondie, the WT quote you posed is very disturbing. It basically gives instructions on how to bypass a minor child's legal guardians in order to recruit the child. And all justified with the bible/jehovah/WT.
I have a question. When a child engages in infant baptism* in WT land, is a signature/permission required from their legal guardian(s)?
In a legal sense, a baptism that involves a child is considered "infant baptism" - or "pedobaptism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism
Infant baptism[1][2] is the practice of baptising infants or young children. In theological discussions, the practice is sometimes referred to as paedobaptism or pedobaptism from the Greek pais meaning "child". The practice is sometimes contrasted with what is called "believer's baptism", or credobaptism, from the Latin word credo meaning "I believe", which is the religious practice of baptising only individuals who personally confess faith in Jesus, therefore excluding underage children. Infant baptism is also called christening by some faith traditions.
In spite of the WT asserting that they don't practice infant baptism, they do. All people who are underage are infants. The legal term for a minor child is "infant". Many Christian churches practice infant baptism. But, here is the difference: in the mainstream churches, a baptism of a minor child is not a contract between the child and the church - it is a contract between the child's parents/guardians and the church.
In the JWs, they ignore the legal boundaries of the age of consent, and in effect, initiate the child into adulthood long before their legal childhood is over. This seems to, somehow, mirror the attitude of adults who ignore the sexual boundaries of children as well. The JWs have no sense of what are appropriate boundaries between adulthood and childhood. It plays out publicly in the way they view baptism and it plays out privately in their child abuse activites.
first off, i certainly agree the jw's are a cult.
but i'm sensitive to black-and-white thinking now.. so, where do they rank on the scale?
think of a cultish religion scale from 0-10.. consider the likes of unitarian universalism vs baptist vs amish vs charles manson.. where do you think jw's fall on the scale?.
Sabin: You have to now consider not only literal life but also psychological. So a person die's from saying no to blood is one, the trauma caused to the family is many. A person commits suicide is one, the trauma caused to the family is many. ETC. you get my point.
Yes, the ripples that the no blood doctrine has left in its wake are immeasurable.
We can try to calculate the number dead but that does not account for those who survived without blood but with long term problems associated with oxygen deprivation or from the side effects of alternative and experimental procedures and drugs being used on them.
It does not account for the children left without mothers or fathers, families who have lost children, or for the health care professionals who have had to watch needless deaths.
One of the factors that professionals look at when determining where on the "grey scale" of 'cultishness' is the degree of violence or potential for violence that the cult's beliefs generate. I think that the ensuing violence that occurs, when someone who has been given limited choices chooses to die, can be measured in the violence inflicted upon the survivors left behind to deal with the aftermath.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .
a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.
provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.
steve2: My apologies for making this way more complicated than it is.
Sokay, Steve.
Blame it on the title of the thread - "disfellowshipped daughter". The OP set the stage for you and others who allowed the inaccurate title to influence your perceptions.
A good example, though, of how elements of assumption can be built into the interpretation of a clear legal document if you don't pay attention.
:)
