Posts by OrphanCrow

11

What happened with Dr. Applewhite's supplementary report? Mistery solved

by Viva la Vida in

jw
friends

542 on 16 august 2015, dr applewhite wrote to the legal representative of watchtower.

australia and advised that she was unable to prepare a supplementary statement due.

to other commitments.

OrphanCrow

Tornintwo: Distance yourself as fast as humanly possible from the witnesses and your embarrassing appearance at the ARC

Oh yeah.

18

Peter Sutcliffe - I thought he was a JW now......?

by punkofnice in

http://newsthump.com/2015/12/01/yorkshire-ripper-calls-for-syria-bombing-campaign-declared-perfectly-sane/.

OrphanCrow

Marvin: That guy is an absolute monster.

Yup. Exactly the kind of guy you want to have wandering around during those 1000 years of "almost paradise" before the "real" paradise kicks in.

I can see why Sutcliffe likes the JW idea of staying in a body right here on earth. I don't doubt that having the opportunity to get to interact with real live breathing bodies that can be hacked and sliced is far more appealing to Sutcliffe than a heavenly promise where bodies don't bleed.

And, seriously, what kind of man would it have to be that would put his shirt and tie on and then go inside a room with a man who had sliced up women? What kind of JW men were they who chose to "study" with Sutcliffe? Would you? Could you? Could you sit in the same room with a man who had did such horrific things to women? And then go home to your wife and kiddies?

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

OrphanCrow

tornintwo: I am intrigued to know if there Is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the Jehovah's Witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?

On another thread about money, Oppostate had posted this:

oppostate: And there's all kinds of charities, insurances, funds, foundations and trusts at:
https://www.citizenaudit.org/?q=Jehovah%27s+witnesses

I visited that link and did a bit of looking around but i can't access any more documents. However, I will copy and paste what I had posted on the other thread about one of the companies at that link:

Oh geez. I randomly clicked on "Two Copper Mountains Inc." just 'cause I thought it was a cool name and wondered what connection it could have with the JWs.

Well. That was interesting. Veeerrrry interesting.

It seems like a JW guy set up a private company to manage a "donation" of a piece of land worth about 1.2 million dollars.

Next thing that happens is that a guy - Robert Metts (a real estate dude) - made a large cash contribution of $325,000 to this private company, managed by the JW guy and his wife, that was 'holding' this donated land. Some of that large "donation" was disbursed to three Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Next, the land is "sold". For, apparently, "fair market value" of $260,000. The cost of the sale was $26,335, for a net loss of $1,029,455. The land was sold to G&F Farms. It must of been an opportune time to pick up land deals.

Next, various sums of money was disbursed to "4" Congegations of Jehovah's Witnesses for their "general funds".

Next, various sums of money was disbursed to "4" Congegations of Jehovah's Witnesses for their "general funds".
An interesting way of managing "donated land". And what was that big donation that came from a real estate guy all about? The guy who made a scoop on the sale of the land which ended up being sold for a huge loss? It sounds like somebody was making deals and making lots of money.

14

I found the WTBTS 990-T's Income Tax Returns for 2010-2013, and it shows their book value of all their assets

by LevelThePlayingField in

there are two sources online to get these pdfs.

https://www.citizenaudit.org/111857820/ lists 2010-2013 ( i would prefer this link because it's the most up to date).

http://www.guidestar.org/viewpdf.aspx?pdfsource=0&ein=11-1857820 lists 2010-2012. book value of all assets at end of year: (can be found on the 990-t for on top left on 1st page).

OrphanCrow

oppostate: And there's all kinds of charities, insurances, funds, foundations and trusts at:
https://www.citizenaudit.org/?q=Jehovah%27s+witnesses

Oh geez. I randomly clicked on "Two Copper Mountains Inc." just 'cause I thought it was a cool name and wondered what connection it could have with the JWs.

Well. That was interesting. Veeerrrry interesting.
It seems like a JW guy set up a private company to manage a "donation" of a piece of land worth about 1.2 million dollars.
Next thing that happens is that a guy - Robert Metts (a real estate dude) - made a large cash contribution of $325,000 to this private company, managed by the JW guy and his wife, that was 'holding' this donated land. Some of that large "donation" was disbursed to three Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Next, the land is "sold". For, apparently, "fair market value" of $260,000. The cost of the sale was $26,335, for a net loss of $1,029,455. The land was sold to G&F Farms. It must of been an opportune time to pick up land deals.
Next, various sums of money was disbursed to "4" Congegations of Jehovah's Witnesses for their "general funds".
An interesting way of managing "donated land". And what was that big donation that came from a real estate guy all about? The guy who made a scoop on the sale of the land which ended up being sold for a huge loss? It sounds like somebody was making deals and making lots of money.

31

2015-11-18-BOE--Credits to jwfacts!

by Atlantis in

thanks to mr. jwfacts we now have a copy of this letter.

i would have posted it on his thread but there was already 2 pages of replies and i didn't think the link would be seen.. thank you again mr. facts!.

.. click the green download button.. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/bbduxaa.

OrphanCrow

Steve2: Bizarre. They are to send detailed info to the Australian branch office without speaking to the relevant publishers about it - and it consists of the elders' evaluations of the publishers.

Bizarre. And sort of creepy.

The elders are to hold service meetings and discuss these people they have targeted, evaluating them on their loyalty/indoctrination level. And all done without the person being aware that they are the subject of this evaluation. It is almost like a "judicial" meeting is being called. Except this is called a "service" meeting - I guess that is the term that is used for an elder/judicial meeting when the person doesn't know it is happening.

49

Elder's letter requesting details of solicitors, barristers and accountants

by jwfacts in

there was a letter sent to elders in australia on 18th november 2015 asking for details of publishers that are solicitors, barristers and accountants.

what would be their motive for these details?

the rest of the letter outlines 8 specific pieces of information to compile and send to bethel's legal department, and reiterates to collect the information only be "as you understand, without consulting the publisher.

OrphanCrow

jwfacts: The rest of the letter outlines 8 specific pieces of information to compile and send to Bethel's legal department, and reiterates to collect the information only be "as you understand, without consulting the publisher." Is it legal to compile a database of individuals without their knowledge?

I just read the letter. I am not sure about the legality of information collecting and sharing but the questions and the way that the elders are instructed to do it without the person's knowledge, is really creepy.

I wouldn't like it if I belonged to a religion and found out that the pastor or pastoral board of directors had compiled a file on me and had met to discuss my personal details, including an assessment of my "spiritual" commitment. I dunno...maybe that is just me.

But, even if it is legal, it still seems to be outside of the bounds of what the elders claim their sole responsibility is - that of "giving spiritual counsel". It seems like their job description now should read "and the collection of files on members that include personal details". AKA - private investigators for the WTS.

49

Elder's letter requesting details of solicitors, barristers and accountants

by jwfacts in

there was a letter sent to elders in australia on 18th november 2015 asking for details of publishers that are solicitors, barristers and accountants.

what would be their motive for these details?

the rest of the letter outlines 8 specific pieces of information to compile and send to bethel's legal department, and reiterates to collect the information only be "as you understand, without consulting the publisher.

OrphanCrow

Hmmmm.

I wonder if the WTS is recruiting replacements for the "cleansing of the temple" that is probably happening behind the closed doors of the Tower. Maybe there have been a lot of "pinkslipping" of those professions.

Treason and paranoia.

Clean the temple and replace with fresh, loyal workers. Housecleaning.

Heh...somewhat off topic...but, I still think we will hear of a big gun getting tossed soon. The WTS needs a scapegoat.

29

Is ANYONE in charge a real ordained minister? College degrees? Seminary? A real Theological degree?

by WireRider in

and i don't mean that stupid made up shit russell just invented only a 100 yrs ago.

he never passed the 7th grade and declared that the world was too stupid to understand the bible without him.. who do you follow and pore money into the watchtower?.

OrphanCrow

wirerider: In what world did Russell have any business to publish such crap as the made up "Studies in the Scriptures"??

In the American corporate world. If it sells, it is profit. Free enterprise. Russell took hope, packaged it up as a commodity, and sold it.

America - Land of the Free.

29

Is ANYONE in charge a real ordained minister? College degrees? Seminary? A real Theological degree?

by WireRider in

and i don't mean that stupid made up shit russell just invented only a 100 yrs ago.

he never passed the 7th grade and declared that the world was too stupid to understand the bible without him.. who do you follow and pore money into the watchtower?.

OrphanCrow

Diogenesister:
Finkelstein10 minutes ago
Which is interesting given that at the time one would have thought that a wealthy man with an interest in the Bible would have attempted to study at a Seminary at the very least - even if he did not complete it once assured of his new found Biblical'truth'.
Except, of course, it wasn't new found, it was almost completely plagiarized from Adventist theology, Miller's work, John Aquilla et al.
Not to mention the fact there are doubts about Russell's initial wealth - until, that is, he got the 'keys to his own publishing company' (Finklestein, JW.D, 2015)
Unsurprising, then, they would not want subsequent followers studying a subject the founders did not understand. Even the WT "oracle" W.Franze was only a second year undergraduate of ancient (not Biblical)Greek when he left to become a WT colporteur, or book & tract salesman.
And you don't need a theology degree to sell books.

What becomes comparatively interesting is what WireRider pointed out that the WTS right to its very beginning inception did not have a academically trained bible theologian.

Russell was tied in with the International Correspondence School. The ICS' mantra was that you did not have to go to university - you could just study at home, with a focused course on whatever subject you wanted to gain knowledge of, without having to get a university degree.

The Studies in the Scriptures was the course designed by Russell to "ordain" the Bible Students. It was sold to the public in the same way the ICS's courses were - as a home study course. Later, once Russell died and the WTS was in the hands of Rutherford, a textbook writer for the ICS was one the editors for the Golden Age magazine - it was a slam dunk. The colportuers sold ICS courses right along with the WT literature.

19

What if moving the world headquarters of the Watchtower is just a cover-up?

by WireRider in

what better way to scam a few hundred million off the top?

with all the conversations, and truly distractions, of shortfalls and money problems - sell off about 1.2 billion of highly valued, tax exempt, property in brooklyn ny and build an ehhh 500 million property upstate.

what happened to the missing 700 million?

OrphanCrow

Oubilette: It states that in the 2014 fiscal year, "The Society granted [$35,921,000] to 434 qualified donees in Canada."
That's nearly $83,000 per "donee" on average. Just who are these people and what did they do to warrant getting such a large grant? That amount is surely much larger than the average JW earns annually.

I replied to your comment on the oher thread about money but will do so here as well.

That amount is simply representative of a paper transaction to "forgive" Kingdom Hall loans. It is a side step to fall in line with the allowable "donation" system of income. Loans are not considered an allowable form of revenue for charities.