Posts by OrphanCrow

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Coded Logic: When you say "extensive" medical library do you mean a collection of medical papers published on the topic of blood?

I am speaking of the type of library that would be necessary to maintain, in order to draw from, to produce and distribute the type of quasi-journal-volumes that the WTS printed way back in the 70s for distribution to hospitals across Canada (and probably elsewhere) in order to pressure medical doctors to use alternative treatment to blood transfusions. I have a copy of one of those journals and it is notated and marked by the JW men who compiled it - marked on the WTS' copies of the journal articles used from their own library at that time (pre-digital journals and newspapers, etc). It is no mean feat to put together that type of publication. And it was done by the WTS using their own library and manpower.

I am also speaking of the CD productions that the WTS produced to promote alternative treatments to blood - the ones they made before they farmed out noblood promotion to the bloodless JW men like Melseth and company. And the material that is given to doctors and hospitals - lots of it.

I am not speaking about the Watchtower and Awake - those are just the vanilla versions of noblood promotion watered down for the masses - there has been much literature produced for distribution into the medical institutions that far exceeds what is printed in the WT rags.

Are you saying that the WT funds research into bloodless treatments? And that it pays to have that research sent to medical institutes and hospitals?

One of the WTS' greatest resources is their followers - the WTS doesn't need to fund research - they provide the research subjects. Which is a commodity that is valuable beyond calculation. Jehovah's Witnesses have been used for years in clinical trials - providing 'volunteers' for those clinical trials has real financial compensation attached to it. Medical recruiters don't come cheap and people who are enrolled in clinical trials are quite often compensated financially for their participation. My *guess* is that the WTS has been getting compensated for arranging patients for clinical trials and medical studies. And that it has been going on for decades.

No, the WTS wouldn't pay to send their data collection to hospitals - quite the contrary - the data they collect on JW patients would actually be valuable to them as a resource, not an expense - data is worth money to the right people.

As far as being specific as to what the HIS does...well, besides attending FDA hearings on blood technology, they have been involved in promoting blood management networks across the world. The conferences that were held for blood management promotion back in the late 90s and early 2000s were attended by JW doctors who are part of the HIS. The information that trickles down to the JW members is only a tiny part of what the HIS does.

In 2001, several JWs who had come up through the ranks of the HLC established the Society for the Advancement of Blood Management. The SABM. Founded by JWs. And, the first year they were established, guess who received the SABM's President Award? The Watchtower Society. That is one award you won't hear them advertsing.

There is more - but, it is pretty complicated. The world that exists above the local HLC fellows is complex, large, and active. The HLC are just the "publishers" for a huge noblood machine. They are the front men. And they don't even know it. And the ones who do know....likely justify profiting from the blood doctrine by rationalizing that they are "saving" JW lives. Greed does funny things to people's moral compasses.

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

JWdaughter: My mom got an hour or so with an end who was hired by hospital as regular employee and who led mum through a loooong session involving a blood agreement, mum chose from a lot of options after being totally led by JW hospital employee to which option were acceptable.
Catholic hospital, paid by Medicare and group health.

Yes. The JWs are quite integrated into various medical systems besides the "bloodless clinics" that are managed by JWs. There are far more JWs that work in health care who are influencing JW patients than most people realize.

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Lee Elder: I would not be surprised if the answers to those questions proved to be disturbing as is so often the case with the WTS.

That is why I think it is critical to be asking these (as yet) unanswerable questions now that the charity invesigations are underway in the UK. If the Hospital Information network is, indeed, just another part of the WT monolith, there could be some uncomfortable questions raised about the origin of the funding and the purpose of that department.

It could prove to be very interesting if the financial connections between the bloodless industry and the WTS were scrutinized as the result of investigating the WTS' "charitable" work. And yes, I think it would raise some perplexing ethical issues, particularly when the shifting blood doctrine is intimately tied up with the supply of medical subjects for paticular pharma concerns.

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Vidiot: the WT's somewhat-less-than-six-degrees-seperated "bloodless" med-tech industry itself.

Are you suggesting....*gasp*...that the WTS gets money from the same bloodless industry that would profit from leaving the blood doctrine in place? Wouldn't that create some ethical issues? Conflict of interest?

How does the Hospital Information Services claim to be "charitable" and "for the public good" when it obviously serves the interests of only JWs and those invested in those concerns? Or...does it only serve the JWs? Who profits from being donators to the Hospital Information network?

BTW...

:) *happy Sunday morning!

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Landy: When I was in, the HLC was just a few local elders who'd done a bit of boning up on blood substitutes.

For some background information about how high up that "boning up" goes in the HLC:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/287365/blood-us-army-us-navy-watchtower-society

The local handling of the blood substitutes by elders was just the pimple on a big festering boil.

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

Landy: The HLC's are just a bunch of elders who are able to talk to doctors about the possibility of alternative treatments. That's it. They aren't paid for anything - the costs of dissemination of any information to them will be negligible.

Landy, the HLC is only the visible part of the entire medical network that is necessary for the WTS to disseminate the information that the HLC is responsible for. To get an idea of who the HLC is, think of an baptized publisher in the field service hierarchy. That is where the HLC member is situated. Above the "unbaptized" ones - the elders who implement the blood policies at the mundane but essential level - with the targeted group of medical subjects - the JWs themselves.

Above the HLC guys is an entire medical network who establish protocol and organize liaisons with medical establishments and pharma companies. Rising up through the ranks of the HLC network could land, and has landed, the really slick ones into prominent international positions in the field of blood management. (Shannon Farmer, for one. There are many more) Each country has a branch of Hospital Information Services, most of them run by JW doctors.

Not only that, but the amount of material produced over the past seven decades by the WTS concerning blood and how to influence the medical world with their version of treatment, has been very substantial and comes from the maintenance of a large, large medical library. The cost of researching, producing and distributing some of their historical "medical information" in the form of hefty volumes and visual media would be large.

I do not think that the cost is 'negligible'. Far from it. Far, far from it.

21

Where does the money come from to operate the Hospital Information network?

by OrphanCrow in

the recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the watchtower society and their evil offspring - the jw org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties.

many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations.

where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

OrphanCrow

The recent buzz that has hit the online communities concerning the Watchtower Society and their evil offspring - the JW org - revolves around their apparent financial difficulties. Many factors have been discussed - the real estate flips (and flops), the changes in meetings and field service, the need for donations to cover expenses, the push for donations. Donations to presumably cover the cost of "worldwide preaching work", Jehovah's construction plans, translation offices...
There is one part of the Watchtower Society that is never discussed when it comes to financial outlays and expense of the WTS. And, this unmentioned "arm" of the WTS octopus is a substantial one and one that would require a substantial investment to keep operating. And, this arm keeps operating and is very active. That arm is the WTS' Hospital International Information Services. This operation is a complex and and weighty part of the WTS' concerns.
The HIS oversees branches in almost every country they operate in and their function is to train and maintain teams of JW men who we know as the Hospital Liasion Comittees, the HLC. And to maintain connections with the pharmaceutical and medical world. This network of people are governed by a quasi-medical people who are JWs. The WTS maintains a huge medical library that is "everything you ever wanted to know about blood" and up until recently, they produced copius amounts of promotional propagnada for the so-called "bloodless" field of medicine. They continue to produce and distribute their "blood management" propaganda throughout medical establishments across the globe. The entire network is very complex and exerts a worldwide influence. And it would take a lot of money to keep it operational - the investments into training, producing all the promontional material, and maintaining a medical library would be substantial.
My question is this - where does the money come from to keep this monster quasi-medical organization afloat - the Hospital International Information Services? Does the WTS ever solicit donations for the financing of the HLC network? The WTS asks for donations to literature and Kingdom Hall concerns, and world wide missionary work, etc, etc. but is the HLC ever mentioned?
Does anyone have any information on how the funding (which would be substantial) for the Hospital Information network is handled? Who pays for that "service"? Does anybody even care? Does anyone besides me ever wonder about how the WTS' medical arm is financed? Or how much it costs to keep it going? Where does the money come from to operate the hospital information network?

91

Is the Watchtower organisation facing the biggest crisis of its history?

by slimboyfat in

recent developments make me think they might be.

the problems they are facing are not just lack of funds but also draining authority, and the two could be a heady and explosive mix.

one of the best analyses ever written of the watchtower was a book called "trumpet of prophecy" by sociologist james beckford in the 1970s.

OrphanCrow

I dunno...I think there is just some restructuring going on.

The "religion" of the Jehovah's Witnesses is being cut-off from the main money making schemes of the Watchtower Society.

The "money grabbing" is simply the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses desperately trying to make itself over into an acceptable mainstream charitable organization that must rely on donations in order to qualify for tax exemption. Many of the changes that we see happening with the religion are the result of tax laws changing.

Of course the JW religion is changing - but that is only camoflague - the beast is still alive and feeding. The WTS isn't the religion per se - they are the money machine. The religion is getting the boot from mama - they are being told to fly out of the nest.

The Watchtower Society will survive - it already does and it will. They have been busy splitting off their money makers into separate corporations for years and years now. And paying off their pimps - the JWs in various professions. All this financial activity is just shuffling in order to maximize profits and still fly under the radar as a tax exempt organization.

In the meantime....many wealthy JWs are lining their pockets with all the revenue generated for their busineers and careers by the doctrines of the JWs and the activities of the WTS. Catching the dollars as they drop from the sky while the robbers run and hide.

The problem that always faces totalitarian authority structures is that when they implode - which appears to be happening - is that the power vacuum that is left in its demise is almost always taken over with a even more despotic power base.

The Watchtower Society itself will emerge from the ashes with feathers singed, and maybe a new name at some point...and a whole piss pot full of money stashed off shore. The Watchtower Society is a whore and she has been prostituing herself for a long, long time. Her pimps grow fat and they will continue to sell her out to the highest bidder.

18

The TOP 5 Most Dangerous Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses

by park ave boy in

first i want to say happy new year to everyone here including you lurkers!

i was able to get away with my whole family for xmas and new years up to maine away from everything.

i mean everything and it felt great.

OrphanCrow

parkaveboy: Thank you Orphancrow! Really, is that so? More than Jamestown each year? I would love to see the actual numbers because that is another piece of evidence for the AG to read and add to the list.

There is some discussion about numbers on this thread here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5460463630417920/document-blood-transfusion-deaths-please-help?page=2&size=10

But the reason I listed it as number 3 is because without the "you MUST obey the 7 fat bastards" then the blood transfusion doctrine would be null and void.

It is a bit of a chicken and egg conundrum isn't it? Without the draconian rules, the "must obey" is redundant.

As far as "dangerous teachings" go, the most dangerous teaching that is enforced by the "must obey" directive, is unquestionably the one that has cost the most needless deaths.

Hence, the blood doctrine. 70 years of suicidal behavior that has been called "religious belief". Supported and promoted with the WT brand of bullshit "science". Underneath it all, and covered up by all the multitude of problems that the WTS faces, the Jehovah's Witnesses are a blood cult. A death cult.

18

The TOP 5 Most Dangerous Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses

by park ave boy in

first i want to say happy new year to everyone here including you lurkers!

i was able to get away with my whole family for xmas and new years up to maine away from everything.

i mean everything and it felt great.

OrphanCrow

It's a good list, Parkaveboy.

However, I would move the "blood doctrine" to the number one spot. The psuedo-scientific quack teaching about the benefits of suicide can be measured in real lives - tens of thousands of them, if not more.

The blood doctrine is what defines the Jehovah's Witnesses as a "death cult". More Jehovah's Witnesses die each and every year, from refusing life saving blood transfusions, than the number of people who died at Jonestown alone.