Posts by OrphanCrow

30

Do you remember this WT calendar art?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

these are of early '70s vintage, i recall.

my job was to sort through thousands of these and be sure they were not "off register.".

.

OrphanCrow

smiddy: ...I could be wrong but I don`t ever remember children being baptised as happens today , and certainly not depicted in that art work.

I don't think you are wrong. In the 60s, it was not usual to see children baptized.

My parents had a rule that us kids couldn't get baptized until we were at least 16. (thank goodness...I left when I was 13/14)

Child baptism was not considered a "thing" in the post-war years. My mother had been part of the pre-war scoop that saw very young children get baptized in anticipation of the 'armageddon' that the war was going to usher in. She had been six years old when she got dunked by the "Society men" that had been sent out into rural Canada to save all those children. She said that the Society, after the war, offered all those children an opportunity to be re-baptized, if they felt they needed to be, as adults. My mom didn't bother...she said "Of course I agreed to be baptized at 6 years of age - I wanted to make my parents happy...I had no idea what it really meant."

Child baptism was a huge part of the pre-war years that saw events such as the "Children of the King" assemblies and the release of the book "Children" in 1941. The WTS needed the children to help fight the pledge of allegiance legal issue that they were facing.

41

How many JWs actually died in Nazi camps

by dogon in

the jws have tried to pad the number of jws in camps.

how many actually went and how many died?

can you site the source also?

OrphanCrow

sfb: Some of the JWs who signed the declaration did so as a form of "theocratic warfare". And that others did so as a result of pressure... is hardly surprising given the circumstances.

(from the first link I posted)

...the form letter that BS/Jws were usually required to sign to be released was a pledge to give up the doctrines of the Watchtower and to not engage in the proselytizing work. Contrary to what most Jws today will tell you, these letters were signed by the BS/Jws in Germany that were arrested - about 50 percent of those sent to prison signed the letters before they were released and only about 10 percent signed them once they reached the camps. As John-Stucke points out in her essay*, it was not advantageous to the BS/Jw prisoners to sign the letters once they reached the camps because it was in effect, potentially signing their own death warrants. The men who signed would be sent to the front to fight and rarely returned. Staying in the camps was the safest and best way for the Bible Students and JWs to survive the war. Especially when they got assignments that placed them in places of privilege that fed and clothed and sheltered them - they ate while many in the rest of Europe and Britain starved.
The myth that the BS/Jws didn't sign the papers because of God-loyalty is rather misguided - the lack of signing was not always a resistance/martyr move - it was a 'save my ass' move. Yes...many got badly treated because of not signing the papers...but many also took advantage of not serving at the front.

41

How many JWs actually died in Nazi camps

by dogon in

the jws have tried to pad the number of jws in camps.

how many actually went and how many died?

can you site the source also?

OrphanCrow

Giorando: (The non-German Jehovah's Witnesses suffered a considerably higher percentage of deaths than their German co-religionists.)...

Exactly. What the numbers reported don't reveal is the huge split that was apparent in the German WT at the time.

There had been a division in 1925 that saw many of the Bible Students in Germany leave the WT and follow Conrad Binkele's Bible Students. These Bible Students (the Earnest Bible Students), that were loyal to Russell's teaching, still followed the dual covenant theology that Russell espoused and they rejected Rutherford's replacement theology.

There are accounts of the JWs, in the employ of SS officers, who spoke out against the Jews...exactly like Rutherford did. And then....those poor Bible Students (who got lumped into the "official" JW numbers after the war), that supported the Jewish homeland, were the ones who got the worst treatment. The JWs who followed the Rutherford replacement theology got the best, and the privileged, treatment by the SS.

41

How many JWs actually died in Nazi camps

by dogon in

the jws have tried to pad the number of jws in camps.

how many actually went and how many died?

can you site the source also?

OrphanCrow

sfb: Wikipedia has the correct numbers from Detlef Garbe the leading expert on this topic. There were 20,000 JWs in Nazi Germany, 10,000 were imprisoned, 2000 of them in concentration camps, and around 1200 died in custody including 250 who were executed.

What those numbers don't reveal is that half of the JWs/BibleStudents that were arrested did sign the declaration to be released.

What you won't find in those numbers is the number of JWs who held positions of privilege during the war with SS members and their families. You won't find the accounts of the JWs who sat out the war in a posh camp as caretakers of Himmler's castle. You won't find the accounts of how JWs were released, by Heinrich Himmler the leader of the SS, on a handshake and considered partially free by war's end.

A Castle, Estates and Berry Picking: Personal Servants and Positions of Privilege

and you won't find the account of how Himmler had made an order in 1944 to relocate JWs to conquered territories:

In July 1944, Himmler ordered Ernst Kaltenbrunner, the head of the RSHA, to begin the exporting of the faith of the Jehovah's Witnesses to the occupied east.[39] Himmler considered the Jehovah's Witnesses of being frugal, hard-working, honest and fanatic in their pacifism, and that these traits were extremely desirable for the suppressed nations in the east

I understand the position of not denigrating the JWs and Bible Students who did suffer during WW2...but I also think it is important to set the record straight about what really went on with the JWs and the Nazis by the time the war was over.

22

Howto: get access to scientific papers

by Anders Andersen in

since most people are not aware on how to get (free*) access to scientific papers and journals, so here's a short list of resources.. search http://scholar.google.com for the paper.

maybe you'll get lucky and find it somewhere for free.. if you can only find a paid for version of the paper, get the title, doi (sort of like an isbn number) and link to the download page of the paper on the paysite.. if you don't know the doi, find it by searching your paper's title on http://crossref.org.

go to the libgen site (links here: https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis ) and search for the paper.

OrphanCrow

Old Hippie, archive.org archives historic publications but it does not archive "historic scientific publications".

I am looking for scientific articles that have been published in credible medical journals...not the psuedo science such as stuff related to the canopy theory, the pyramids, and other pseudo science sources that the WT is fond of using.

I am looking for real science sources - medical journal articles. Archive.org is useful, but not for scientific/medical research.

Thank you for the Dixon/Smalley article, jwleaks. Interesting the way that the WT's timeline has large differences to the timeline that sits outside of the ordinary JWs' reach...it is interesting that, in 1981, technology that wouldn't get official WT approval for many years was already being arranged prior to 1981, by the WT and promoted by their goons, the up and coming HLC network

22

Howto: get access to scientific papers

by Anders Andersen in

since most people are not aware on how to get (free*) access to scientific papers and journals, so here's a short list of resources.. search http://scholar.google.com for the paper.

maybe you'll get lucky and find it somewhere for free.. if you can only find a paid for version of the paper, get the title, doi (sort of like an isbn number) and link to the download page of the paper on the paysite.. if you don't know the doi, find it by searching your paper's title on http://crossref.org.

go to the libgen site (links here: https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis ) and search for the paper.

OrphanCrow

Excellent. Much appreciated, jwleaks.

This is interesting...both Dr. Dixon and Smalley have a place in my research of the blood ban. I wonder what report this article is speaking about. 1985 coincides with timeline markers in the bloodless world.

I await your expertise...

22

Howto: get access to scientific papers

by Anders Andersen in

since most people are not aware on how to get (free*) access to scientific papers and journals, so here's a short list of resources.. search http://scholar.google.com for the paper.

maybe you'll get lucky and find it somewhere for free.. if you can only find a paid for version of the paper, get the title, doi (sort of like an isbn number) and link to the download page of the paper on the paysite.. if you don't know the doi, find it by searching your paper's title on http://crossref.org.

go to the libgen site (links here: https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis ) and search for the paper.

OrphanCrow

Jwleaks, I want that particular article. It is referenced in another article and I want to check the source.

22

Howto: get access to scientific papers

by Anders Andersen in

since most people are not aware on how to get (free*) access to scientific papers and journals, so here's a short list of resources.. search http://scholar.google.com for the paper.

maybe you'll get lucky and find it somewhere for free.. if you can only find a paid for version of the paper, get the title, doi (sort of like an isbn number) and link to the download page of the paper on the paysite.. if you don't know the doi, find it by searching your paper's title on http://crossref.org.

go to the libgen site (links here: https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis ) and search for the paper.

OrphanCrow

Well, I tried all those (except reddit) and I can't find this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2414307

Anybody?

34

Remote Translation Offices (RTO) of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Brokeback Watchtower in

what do you think about these things.

it seems like a monumental waste of time and money, a pipe dream of the governing body based on wishful thinking.

this corporation is going down the tubes with these asshole deluded genius's calling the financial investment shot.. buying chemical dump property around the world to build their financial empire headquarters on while facing massive child molestation lawsuits now and many more in the future means it looking kind of bleak for these messed idiots running things.. http://jw-branchoffices.blogspot.com/p/watchtower-remote-translation-offices.html.

OrphanCrow

Dreamerdude, no...they don't. They don't need the revitalization of the language but the WT does in order to get funding and positioning.

Here is a 'funny' story. A few years back, I lived in a semi-remote almost Northern town in Canada. The town had a fairly large Indigenous population and the JWs actively pursued them both in town and on the surrounding reserves.

My neighbor would get WT literature written in Cree. We would sit and laugh at the "white natives" in the illustrations. I asked her, "Do you know anybody that reads Cree?" She laughed, snorted, and said "No". The language is not read in the communities and the dialects are so varied that the WT literature is, well...useless. Cree is not the only indigenous language spoken in their communities.

I wish I had kept the Cree Bible Teach book (I think that was the publication...) and had taken it to the university to get analyzed for appropriateness and accuracy of translation. It gets me a bit riled to think of the indigenous population being targeted by yet another pedophile loving cult. They are a people who have deep wounds from the residential school abuse and here we have another religion with pretty pictures and promises, another religion that protects child abusers, inserting themselves into a vulnerable population.

30

Do you remember this WT calendar art?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

these are of early '70s vintage, i recall.

my job was to sort through thousands of these and be sure they were not "off register.".

.

OrphanCrow

That is a blast from the past, Coco. I totally forgot about that calendar but I can see it now...hanging on the kitchen wall...

smiddy:...I seem to recall that The "Aid To Bible Understanding " was released about that same time yet the subject of Elder was not in it.
It puzzled me a lot back then.

The adoption of the term "elder" was puzzling to me. I exited in the pre-elder days. It was so strange to hear my sister say "elder" in the mid to late 70s(?) because I grew up with the mantra that "elder is a term in used by those churches of False Christendom. JWs aren't a part of this world...we don't use "elder" ".

I visited my elderly mother a few years back. She would slip into the 30s and 40s terms of "our bethren" when she was speaking of the "brothers from Bethel".