Posts by OrphanCrow

32

Anyone else hear of this?

by Tahoe in

jw
friends

a jw family member informed me they are filling out an application to preach the truth in israel.

interested ones in the congregation were asked to start saving now, as the cost of the flights would be their own responsibility.

the time frame for this preaching work is for a couple of weeks in may/june 2017. the applications are to be turned in this sunday.

OrphanCrow

wannaexit: They call it going where the "need is great" ...

Heehee...there is likely some prime property the WT wants to target over there with a harassment campaign. JW witnessing is good for bringing down real estate values. Jus' sayin'...

38

Blood Ban Not Going Away Anytime Soon

by baldeagle in

at the recent circuit assembly in our area (nov 19/2016) a talk was given in the afternoon entitled “jehovah will resurrect the dead” it’s clear that the prohibition on blood is not going away anytime soon.

many of us here have expressed the hope that this death dealing policy would be softened or become a complete conscience matter.

not the case, jw’s are urged to not give in and to focus on the resurrection hope.

OrphanCrow

The speaker makes sure that he emphasizes that Christians "back then" abstained from blood and so should JWs today.

Well, it's a really good thing for the JWs that there are other people in this world besides those who think they are following some God directive about sharing blood. It is a good thing that not everybody became a "Christian" because where would the bloodless industry be without blood transfusion technology? It wouldn't exist.

Without blood transfusion technology, there would be no 'bloodless' surgery. It developed out of transfusion technology. Just imagine the world today without blood transfusions. Not only would the rest of the world be screwed but JWs wouldn't have the option of so-called bloodless methods.

Hypocrites.

It isn't a Bible command - it is a scraping of the barrel to try to justify the WT's phobia about sharing blood. A person can find anything they want in the Bible and use it to justify any ideology - the blood phobia came first and the excavating of ancient scripture came second.

Give it time...the next version of the silver sword will just insert 'transfusion' into Acts 15:29 and say that Jesus would have said that if the people of the time would have been able to understand it. "Isn't Jesus considerate and understanding of his audience? See how loving he acted towards those who didn't have his wisdom about the future?"

*to add...and another thing. He makes the claim that some people in the media portray JWs as refusing all medical treatment. I would like him to produce a source for that. I have been reading tons of material for years about blood and never once have I read anyone saying that about the JWs. Never once.

7

My Grandfather has been bleeding.

by joe134cd in

my grandfather has been bleeding and the doctors suspect it could be the medication.

any way i was with my father coming out of the doctors office.

when he matter of fact told me that they wouldn't be taking him up to the hospital for a blood transfusion.

OrphanCrow

Joe, that is worrisome. I hope they find the source of his bleeding soon and do something about the medication he is taking (if they can).

Many years ago, I went through this with my m-i-l. She had been taking steroids for years for her asthma and it eventually caused internal hemorrhaging. The "wound" was internal.

But, the steroids had given her many years of life she wouldn't have had otherwise. Sometimes, that is the best a person can hope for.

It is unfortunate he won't take blood. So sad to say no to life

3

Dr. Denton Cooley, famed Houston heart surgeon, dead at 96

by darkspilver in

the news of dr denton cooley's death is hitting the newspaper obituary columns around the world (friday 18 and saturday 19 november 2016).

he was quoted a fair bit by wt, particularly during the 1970's, with reference to not using blood on jw patients, for example:.

jehovah’s witnesses and the question of blood (1977), pages 55 to 56. courageous doctors who have agreed to operate on jehovah’s witnesses without using blood have often found the experience revealing.

OrphanCrow

RIP Denton Cooley.

I read Dr. Cooley's memoirs not long ago. By the time I had finished the book, he went from being just a name to earning a spot on my heroes list. An amazing surgeon and not only that, an amazing human being.

It disturbs me that the Watchtower tries to take credit for Dr. Cooley's accomplishments with open heart surgery, claiming that the noblood prime was developed for JW patients when, clearly, in his book, Dr Cooley makes it plain how and why the bloodless prime was developed.

*from an earlier post:

Dr. Cooley devised a no blood prime method in order to treat everybody. The JWs just happened to be able to benefit from a procedure that was meant to be bloodless all along. Cooley devised a bloodless method in order to do open heart surgery on all his patients - he did not "rise to the challenge" put forth by a group with invented high risk factors. Dr. Cooley rose to the challenge of how to do open heart surgery on everyone - a procedure that needed the heart to be free of blood.

In his memoirs 1000,000 Hearts, Dr. Cooley describes his early efforts with using a blood prime to start the heart and lung machine in order to divert the blood away from the heart (pg 107):

For the earliest open heart operations using an elaborate system with a Gibbon console. blood infused with heparin was used to "prime" the system, as with any other pump. On the morning of surgery, blood had to be collected from ten or twelve donors of the same blood type. This greatly complicated the procedures. Often, even though we started to collect the blood before dawn, we didn't get enough matching units to start a procedure until the afternoon or evening. Although the red cells were cross-matched, the other blood components couldn't be tested. Once the individual units were mixed together, minor incompatibilities sometimes produced adverse reactions. This problem was originally described by Dr. Howard Gadboys and Dr. Robert Litwak, who believed that it could be solved by using a non-blood prime. They had used this method successfully in dogs.

So Dr. Cooley started using a non blood primer in his open heart surgeries:

In 1961 my associate Dr. Atthur Beall and I began to perform dog experiments with a prime consisting of 5 percent dextrose in distilled water, and we were impressed with the results. We began to use this solution instead of blood to prime the pump for open heart operations in our patients. Before long, my team and I were doing eight or ten opeartions a day, whereas institutions that still used a blood prime did only one or two operations a week. By August 1962 we had operated on one hundred patients using this technique, which not only greatly facilitated open heart surgery but also eliminated blood-borne illnesses. Our simplified methods were a major advance. Within a year we'd done 241 cases using a non-blood prime. I believe that my popularizing this technique silenced the remaining critics of open heart surgery and led to the rapid acceleration in its growth. For this reason. I think it is one of my most important contributions. Although others, including Dr. Nazih Zuhdi and Dr, Allen Greer, had used a similar technique in a few cases, no one had pushed to make it an acceptable method.

Dr. Cooley does not describe his motivation for using a no blood prime as "rising to the challenge" of operating on Jehovah's Witnesses in response to the JWs setting up visiting committees. That didn't happen. The JWs had nothing at all to do with Dr. Cooley's innovation. Nothing. But, they were able to take advantage of his brilliance:

The use of a bloodless prime also allowed me to pioneer open heart surgery on patients of the Jehovah's Witness faith. Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to receive blood transfusions or any other blood products because of their interpretation of several verses in the Bible. Refusal of blood places them at high risk for any surgical procedure in which serious blood loss could be an issue. Unless the operation is done quickly and precisely, the patient could bleed to death. Shortly after beginning to use a non-blood priming solution, I did the world's first open heart surgery on a Jehovah's Witness. That was in May 1962, and within a year I had done six more cases.* In no instance was blood given before, during, or after these operations. the fact that I could operate very quickly meant that less blood was lost, so my cases were more likely to be successful. For many years I was the only surgeon willing to operate on Jehovah's Witnesses.**
* My first seven Jehovah's Witness cases are described in detail in The American Journal of Cardiology, vol. 13 (1964), pp. 779-781.
** My team and I would eventually operate on more than 1,500 Jehovah's Witnesses

This is the only place in Cooley's memoirs that he mentions the Jehovah's Witnesses. Cooley went on to perform 100,000 (?) heart surgeries and the JWs only made up a small part of that monumental feat. Almost all of Cooley's open heart procedures were bloodless - it was the nature of the procedure itself - it had nothing to do with the JW blood refusal. Nothing. Cooley's methods were not a response to the JWs- they were a response to his profession. The JWs have used Cooley's innovations to promote their no blood ideology. They have tried to take credit for something that are not entitled to.

9

"Are Jehovah’s Witnesses free to make informed decisions about blood transfusions?" - Canadian article

by OrphanCrow in

this is an excellent article written by 3 faculty members in the cumming school of medicine, university of calgary - juliet guichon, ian mitchell and christopher doig.. http://healthydebate.ca/opinions/blood-transfusions-jehovahs-witnesses#comment-2866324.

it is encouraging to know that the voices that have been raised against the blood ban are being heard.

the work that so many people have done is now bearing fruit.. in 20th century canada, jehovah’s witnesses were persecuted for their proselytizing and wartime pacifism.

OrphanCrow

I agree with you Flipper.

The Watchtower Society has made the Jehovah's Witnesses into a rare blood group and as a consequence, they have become one of the most exploited and vulnerable groups of medical patients that there is.

Trying to discuss this with some people (doctors included) has often resulted in this response:

"What's your problem? They are going to die anyways. Why not try out experimental procedures on them?"

And once, this response from a medical doctor:

"Stop asking questions. Keep your nose out of business that doesn't concern you."

9

"Are Jehovah’s Witnesses free to make informed decisions about blood transfusions?" - Canadian article

by OrphanCrow in

this is an excellent article written by 3 faculty members in the cumming school of medicine, university of calgary - juliet guichon, ian mitchell and christopher doig.. http://healthydebate.ca/opinions/blood-transfusions-jehovahs-witnesses#comment-2866324.

it is encouraging to know that the voices that have been raised against the blood ban are being heard.

the work that so many people have done is now bearing fruit.. in 20th century canada, jehovah’s witnesses were persecuted for their proselytizing and wartime pacifism.

OrphanCrow

Vidiot: ...deafening silence.

When the story about Eloise first broke, the JWs were crawling all over the articles' comments. Now, nothing. Not a peep.

I think they have been told to keep quiet on this one. A coroner's inquest is a serious matter and the WT is going to have their hands full. They don't want their membership's comments to work against them. I noticed that the above article was posted as a "debate and controversy" article but there isn't any debate on this one. None at all.

Orders from headquarters, I am betting. The WT wants as least attention on this as possible - the pot is already on full boil

Wonder: Certainly its not a inicidentally that the latest November 2016 broadcast of j w t v features Canadas famous legal victories with the trial of Bucher. (charge of seditious libel for distributing pamphlets) (starts with 46:00) This is certainly because of the large publicity in Canada about people dying avoiding blood transfusions

Absolutely it will be, no question there.

The WT's history in Quebec is a clear example of the WT's political movements. Quebec was targeted right after the war for exactly the purpose of challenging legal precepts. They called it 'missionary work' but in reality it was political work. Activist work. Aggressive activism for political and commercial purposes disguised as religious belief.

If anyone is interested in the history of the JWs in Quebec, the old yearbooks have reports from Canada that go into a lot of detail on how they were purposeful in stirring up dissension and so-called persecution in Quebec during the late 40s and early 50s. The JWs victimized the people of Quebec and then shed crocodile tears when the Quebec people resisted their aggressive proselytizing assault and the JWs put on their victim costumes and took it all the way to the Supreme Court. They used the perfect tool of the oppressor - make your victim into the aggressor and pull the victim card yourself. That is exactly what the Watchtower did to the province of Quebec back in the 40s.

The WT has their hands full on this one. They are going to try to pull up all that history and use it in their favor but what they don't realize is that they could shoot themselves in the foot with it. There will be residual historic resentment in that province that they will be up against. It isn't the 1940s anymore

9

"Are Jehovah’s Witnesses free to make informed decisions about blood transfusions?" - Canadian article

by OrphanCrow in

this is an excellent article written by 3 faculty members in the cumming school of medicine, university of calgary - juliet guichon, ian mitchell and christopher doig.. http://healthydebate.ca/opinions/blood-transfusions-jehovahs-witnesses#comment-2866324.

it is encouraging to know that the voices that have been raised against the blood ban are being heard.

the work that so many people have done is now bearing fruit.. in 20th century canada, jehovah’s witnesses were persecuted for their proselytizing and wartime pacifism.

OrphanCrow

This is an excellent article written by 3 faculty members in the Cumming School of Medicine, University of Calgary - Juliet Guichon, Ian Mitchell and Christopher Doig.

http://healthydebate.ca/opinions/blood-transfusions-jehovahs-witnesses#comment-2866324

It is encouraging to know that the voices that have been raised against the blood ban are being heard. The work that so many people have done is now bearing fruit.

In 20th century Canada, Jehovah’s Witnesses were persecuted for their proselytizing and wartime pacifism. Fighting back in court, the Watchtower Society helped advance Canadian human rights including when, in 1990, they successfully won recognition of a patient’s right to refuse medical treatment, even if death will result.
The legal challenge stemmed from the Watchtower Society rule that Jehovah’s Witnesses may not accept blood transfusions. In 1990, it appeared to the Court that a well-informed and freely held religious belief was in need of defending.
But times have changed.
Now that the internet enables former Jehovah’s Witnesses to post information about religious practices, whether individual Jehovah’s Witnesses are truly free to make an informed decision is seriously in doubt.
Not all Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse blood, just as not all Catholics refuse contraception.
Yet the Watchtower Society – which governs adherents – adopts and encourages behaviour that raises questions about whether many Jehovah’s Witnesses may express an enlightened and free decision about blood transfusions.
Writing anonymously because of their fear of losing family and friends, some Jehovah’s Witnesses have taken to the internet to expose the pressure applied to followers to comply with the ban against blood transfusions.

*read full article at link

(and yes, I couldn't help myself...the crow had to squawk in the comments section)

28

Did the Fall of the Berlin Wall fulfill Bible Prophecy ?

by Iamallcool in

any takers?

OrphanCrow

I am going to go with "yes". A resounding YES.

Of course it is fulfilled prophecy. That is how prophecy works. Write a story that has thematic human experiences in it that will inevitably happen over and over again in history and volia! The next time something happens that is similar...wow! it was known way back then!

...it is called being human. And it is also the function of myth - myth carries our human narratives within it, to be played out over time, throughout the course of human history...over and over and over again

Yup - the fall of the wall was prophetic. Fulfillment of prophecy. And so is everything that will happen tomorrow and the next day and the next. It all has happened before...the human cycle rarely changes much

Prophecy is just the ability to recognize past patterns and make analogies with present day events. That's all. Pattern recognition is part of our cognitive process as human beings

35

What age were you when you were counted as a publisher?

by OrphanCrow in

the wts has always included minors and adults in the same categories - publisher and baptized.. i am interested in knowing how many minors, approximately, are included in the publisher count.

and, at what age a person started publishing.

what age was the youngest publisher reported?.

OrphanCrow

DoubtingBro: As far as current makeup, in my congo there are some kids but honestly maybe out of 110 or so publishers, only about 10-15 unbaptized publishers who are minors. There are just a couple of minor baptized kids.

I have been looking at some data and what you describe would fit the demographic structure of the general population in the States.

There is a bit of variance from country to country but the percentage of publishers who would be of minor age would fall between 10-15% if the JW demographics are similar to the population at large.

When I was a kid, the number of UBPs was much higher and I know we probably had 30 or so out of 100 publishers. I think that JWs aren't having as many kids as they used to (English - USA)

I think that the higher percentage of JW minors in years past is a reflection of population trends in general. The post-war years had more children in ratio to adults - the end of baby boomer years saw a decline in birth rate

When I was young, the ratio was much the same as you say. I found an old photo that was taken in 1971 of the congregation I attended and the percentage of minor publishers in the photo is about 25%.

35

What age were you when you were counted as a publisher?

by OrphanCrow in

the wts has always included minors and adults in the same categories - publisher and baptized.. i am interested in knowing how many minors, approximately, are included in the publisher count.

and, at what age a person started publishing.

what age was the youngest publisher reported?.

OrphanCrow

Blondie, would you be able to recall how many publishers were minors in comparison to the adults that were?

The more I think about this, and with the feedback so far, it appears that minors would make up a large proportion of not only the publisher count but also of those who are part of the baptism count.

reopenedmind: When my youngest son was one year old I began pioneering. The secretary suggested that since he accompanied me most of the time it would be interesting if I turned in a time slip for him.

That's bizarre