Posts by OrphanCrow

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: ...but I did not conclude that WT was lying

It is hard to wrap your head around, isn't it? So many years of buying into the WT's numbers game that it is difficult to examine the veracity of the WT's claims to numbers. A person's brain gets programmed to accept WT "facts" just because those "facts" are presented as a numerical value.

The WT lies about their history. They lie about their doctrine changes. They lie about protecting children. They lie about numbers. And they also lie about their legal record.

The Watchtower lies. Their lips are moving.

*to add (sorry - cross posting)

But what I also don't see is how your linked source disproves the number that I posted because you feel that your source "would have been all over it" or would have established the number as true.

I dunno...I guess it has been because I have been following Forum 18's news service for the past few years. They present credible evidence in their articles. I have no reason to disbelieve what they report. Forum 18 is about protecting freedom of worship - they highlight human rights abuses - if the WT had that many cases, it would bolster the Forum 18's position so of course they would have reported on those "missing" cases

58

Women's March on Washington

by azor in

jw
friends

my support is with the marchers in washington and around the country today.

i was raised through my formative years by my mother and sister while my father was out of the picture.

they gave me the compassion i have today.

OrphanCrow

FedUp: No, in my opinion these are just entitlement minded females who have nothing better to do with their time than whine.

Riiiiiight.....entitled to earn less than their male counterparts. So entitled, aren't they? Dumb women who think they are worth the same as men...huh?...stupid women and their demands for equitable pay, huh?

Dumb women should have stayed home in the kitchen where they belong and be grateful for their entitled positions, right? Who needs equitable pay?

Entitled. Right. Entitled to go out there and earn less than 80% of what they would get if they had been born with a penis.

401

So, the Womens March ... What Is It For?

by Simon in

it seems like mobilizing after the election, which seems pointless.

i keep hearing demands for equal rights but don't understand what rights they are missing exactly.. normally a march is to show the support (and potential votes) for a cause, but ... votes for what?

... and the election happened already.. is anyone else confused?

OrphanCrow

cofty: Really? I'm not convinced. I think the battle was largely won by previous generations of feminists.

Google "gender wage gap"

Also google "planned parenthood funding cuts"

221

Judge sanctions WTS - $4k per day penalty for not producing sex abuse documents

by Simon in

judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.

imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.

by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.

OrphanCrow

RO:...it does not have the same due process of a court, no defense, cross examination of witnesses or evidence being presented by the defense

By presenting the statement as you have, Richard, you are deliberately trying to present the WTS as being placed at an unfair disadvantage by not being able to prepare a defense.

The WTS was given lots of opportunity to submit a defense and explanation for their position. The ARC website has submissions from the WTS where they attempted to present evidence for their side of the case.

52

Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

by processor in

http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

OrphanCrow

Fisherman: WT claims around 223 -to be exact.

Fisherman, I find that very, very difficult to believe.

According to Forum 18 News Service, since July 20 2016, 5 Jehovah's Witnesses (three cases), one Jehovah's Witness congregation and one Jehovah's Witness elder have been charged.

July 2016 was the date that new amendments were made to restrict missionary activity.

Between the amendment's coming into force on 20 July 2016 and 13 January 2017, there were 32 known prosecutions of: two Baptists, five Hare Krishna adherents (one prosecuted twice), five Jehovah's Witnesses (involved in three separate cases), one Buddhist, two Adventists, one Reformed Ukrainian Orthodox bishop, five Pentecostals, four other Protestants (one prosecuted twice), and one village elder. One Jehovah's Witness congregation, one Pentecostal church, the New Apostolic Church's Administrative Centre, and a Salvation Army branch, as well as a Jehovah's Witness elder, have been charged under Part 3.
Three cases were dropped before reaching court and two more were returned to police or prosecutors by judges and not resubmitted within the stipulated three-day period. Four trials are still underway as of 13 January. Of the 23 trials which have concluded, 18 resulted in conviction and five in acquittal.

So, for the last 6 months of 2016, there were, at most, five cases that involved the Jehovah's Witnesses (likely only 3 cases)

Even adding in the two previous years still doesn't raise the Jehovah's Witnesses cases to the level that the WTS claims:

2014:

According to available court records, 2014 saw 35 prosecutions of religious believers or their communities (out of nearly 1,000 prosecutions in total) – three under Article 20.2, Part 1, 27 under Part 2, and five under Part 5. These involved 24 Jehovah's Witnesses (including three local religious organisations), two Baptists, one Protestant, one Buddhist, and seven unidentified Christians (five in one case in Barnaul).

2015:

Prosecutions in 2015 involved: 83 Jehovah's Witnesses (including two communities), nine Baptists, eight members of the Society for Krishna Consciousness and one Hare Krishna community, six Falun Gong adherents, four members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly known as Mormons - all part of the same case and all acquitted), three Muslims, three Protestants, one Buddhist, and four people of unknown belief affiliation.

So, according to a source that is not based in New York (Forum 18 is a Christian human rights org based in Norway), the WTS' numbers are way off.

I am not buying the WTS' claims that there were 223 cases in 2016 when Forum 18 claims that there were only THREE (or maybe 5?) cases that involved JWs during the last 6 months of 2016. That would mean that during the first six months of 2016 there were 220 additional cases. There wasn't.

If there were, indeed, 223 WT cases in 2016 alone, Forum 18 would have been all over it. They weren't. The WTS is lying.

18

Is it just me ? 2 threads debating page after page with one individual ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

is it just me who doesnt see the point of this ?

from time to time we see some individual who takes up page after page arguing his or her point of view and it usually ends up with only 2 or 3 individuals who keep the talkfest going with a particular individual and nobodys getting anything out of it .. why bother ?

why get sucked in to such a pointless dialogue ?

OrphanCrow

lifeistoshort: To me this is just really important and if this guy succeeds in scary people from even trying it which really appears to be his goal it just makes me crazy. The subject of the pedophiles is so close to me that for someone to try to stop it like he is coming off as doing makes me lose it. I do agree that it is just a huge waste of time to debate them.

Yes, a thread like the one you mentioned is a significant thread and people like RO, once they decide to throw a wet blanket on it, can cause those who read his posts to have doubts and fall back into the Watchtower rationales and thought patterns. I, too, feel it is a huge waste of time to try to debate with Richard, however...I think the same way as Outlaw and others, it isn't RO we are arguing with - we are taking a stand against the Watchtower excuses for their vile behavior. RO is simply spouting all the nonsense he has been spoon fed by the WTS.

RO isn't RO per se - he represents all those dumb ass lawyers that the WTS has employed in slave labor to them. Arguing with RO is like getting a chance to debate with one of those suits that we saw sitting behind Angus Stewart at the ARC. RO represents those WT lawyers who made complete fools out of themselves.

Yes, Smiddy - RO's threads are annoying as hell - but I think they serve a purpose. For you, that purpose could be just learning to walk away when those kind of threads pop up. You don't have to read them and you don't have to participate. But it is perfectly fine to bitch about it too! Whatever kicks your turtle, Smiddy

161

ARC Analysis Summary of Case Files

by Richard Oliver in

i have been doing research on the arc as some people on here have suggested.

i find it interesting on the case file analysis some of the findings.

it looks like queensland and new south wales had the biggest problems with this.

OrphanCrow

I know that some people will disagree with me and feel that there is talk about 150000 Austrian dollars per person should be paid out by the organization. I don't think that is right for all of those cases because many of them had nothing to do with Watchtower other than the fact that the perpetrator happened to be a JW. The victim was picked exclusively because they were part of the congregation and nothing could have been done to prevent that crime.

Your Watchtower is showing, Richard

Join the lengthy list of Watchtower goons that speak just like you (out of the side of the mouth) who don't give a flying f*** for the consequences of how the restrictive and harmful policies of the Tower have affected the victims of that crime you claim would have happened anyways.

You display your ignorance brilliantly. Those victims did NOT get the help they needed and many of them suffered horribly for years and years - all because of the WT. It doesn't matter if the crime would have occurred anyways - what matters is how that crime was handled and how the mishandling of that crime by following WT policies resulted in further harm to the victim. THAT is why the victims deserve every penny they can get. For being denied a fair hearing and for not getting the psychological help they needed to heal and move on with their lives

You are an idiot. Tell me...does your first name really start with a "G"?

144

2.16.2017 NJ Star-Ledger Ad: "Were you sexually abused by the Jehovahs Witnesses?"

by breakfast of champions in

my wife found this 1/4 page ad on page 2 of yesterday's nj star-ledger, probably the biggest newspaper in nj.

pretty telling.. .

OrphanCrow

RO: ...That is why watchtower wins a lot of cases at the summary judgment level because they can show the judge that they didn't have any of those duties.

snicker

heehee...and ain't it grand how the ARC has revealed previously unknown documents that blow that shit out of the water. Hahaha! They can't do that anymore, now, can they?

Lol! I got my morning chuckle of the day, Richard. Thank you for that. Keep showing up

144

2.16.2017 NJ Star-Ledger Ad: "Were you sexually abused by the Jehovahs Witnesses?"

by breakfast of champions in

my wife found this 1/4 page ad on page 2 of yesterday's nj star-ledger, probably the biggest newspaper in nj.

pretty telling.. .

OrphanCrow

MyName: I'm just being realistic.

No you're not.

You are taking the position that appears to be realistic to you. That is all. Stating your view of reality does not equal "realistic".

Newspapers are an excellent venue for this type of ad. It will reach people who are of an older generation - ie...those historic abuse cases that have been so far invisible

And...using the phrase "the appearance of "a few lawyer ads"" - reveals that you are discounting the importance of these ads being mounted by several law firms. These "few lawyer ads" are evidence that the media to this point has given attention to these child abuse cases and secondly...that lawyers are of the opinion that they have the legal teeth to pursue the WTS

Realistic? Well...according to how you view it

*to add - these ads are also targeting a group of people who have been taught to mistrust online versions of news. They have been told that Satan manipulates the internet (unless it comes from jw..org) They will instinctively trust hard copy newspapers more readily. Placing the ads in newspapers is a genius marketing move

161

ARC Analysis Summary of Case Files

by Richard Oliver in

i have been doing research on the arc as some people on here have suggested.

i find it interesting on the case file analysis some of the findings.

it looks like queensland and new south wales had the biggest problems with this.

OrphanCrow

The OP made this statement:

But it seems like over half of the cases that the ARC is looking at happened within the family of the perpetrator. Certainly, many would contest that they could have done more after the fact to support the victim and ensure that the offender went to jail, but sadly probably very little could have been done to prevent that terrible act.

I disagree with that persons' position/opinion/perspective.

The OP presents that apparent distribution of sexual crimes being within families as an apology or rational for the appearance of this sexual crime within the JW religion.

And yes, it is an apologetic stance. Any sentence that starts with "but" is going to present an apparent reason for an anomaly occurring.

I have been aware that the pattern of sex abuse within the JWs occurs systemically - it happens at all levels, within and outside of that sanctified family circle. The WT has taken, for many decades, the legal position that the family unit is sacred. They have fought many legal battles on that principle and have taken that stand in their battle to have it ethical for parents to refuse life saving medical treatments for their children.

The factors that foster a climate of familial abuse are varied and the WTS is responsible for contributing to the problem. The numbers that we have available that point to this phenomena, that over half of the cases are familial, reveal that the WTS is aware of this too. Of course they are.

And yet what did they do right after the ARC started? They released a video for 'educational' purposes that was shown to parents and children that depicted the abuser as a stranger, a monster. And, the children were instructed to "tell their parents first". Really? The WTS, through the use of this video, reveals that they are reinforcing familial abuse, not preventing it.

The WTS wants to keep the family unit as a closed, sealed unit, where the parents (AKA parents who follow the WTS orders/rules) have full control and power over minor children. It is that ideology and practice that fosters and maintains familial sexual abuse.