OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  99

  January 19, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN WALES Re: Prerecorded Memorial and Special Talk 2017 - Welsh

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  january 19, 2017 to all bodies of elders in wales re: prerecorded memorial and special talk 2017 - welsh.

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  OrphanCrow

  RO: OK if you don't like the argument of student grants. The Department of Justice offers 41% of their grants for a formula based grant system, where if an organization meets the requirements for a grant it is then awarded to them without discretion.

  Right. The awarding of the grant is dependent upon the organization "meeting requirements". The competition is built into the application process itself and doesn't appear in the final awarding of the grants - that competitive quality is fulfilled by the "meeting requirement" rule.

  That still doesn't mean that the grant is "offered". The decision to apply for that grant still rests with the organization itself - it is not offered to them. It is a different process than what you implied with your original statement.

  And thank you that information about the Justice Department grants. Would it be safe to assume you know that because of your association with the org under question? Did you have the opportunity to apply for some of those grants from the Justice Department on behalf of the WTS?

  
  
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  99

  January 19, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN WALES Re: Prerecorded Memorial and Special Talk 2017 - Welsh

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  january 19, 2017 to all bodies of elders in wales re: prerecorded memorial and special talk 2017 - welsh.

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  OrphanCrow

  Richard, government grants are not "offered", regardless if you compete for them or not. *edit to add - your little bit about student grants is irrelevant to this topic

  You are using watchtower speak and slipping sideways with your speech.

  Just like with this comment:

  " The Navajo nation is very happy that Watchtower is trying to present information in that language..."

  Says who? The Watchtower?

  
  
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  99

  January 19, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN WALES Re: Prerecorded Memorial and Special Talk 2017 - Welsh

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  january 19, 2017 to all bodies of elders in wales re: prerecorded memorial and special talk 2017 - welsh.

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  OrphanCrow

  Thank you for your reply, Richard.

  Just one little comment. You said "...they do accept government grants when it is offered to them"

  Government grants don't work that way. The grants are not "offered". Organizations apply and compete for them.
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  99

  January 19, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN WALES Re: Prerecorded Memorial and Special Talk 2017 - Welsh

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  january 19, 2017 to all bodies of elders in wales re: prerecorded memorial and special talk 2017 - welsh.

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  OrphanCrow

  Joe: I also suspect that WT may be in receipt of government subsidies for 'promotion of the Welsh language'.

  ^^^This^^^

  Richard Oliver, you come across as having knowledge about how the WTS operates. Any comment on the possibility that the org receives grants/subsidies/special considerations, etc., for providing language services?

  Language revitalization is a popular global initiative. How does the org's language initiatives fit in that framework? Do they take advantage of the monies available for such an endeavor?

  Or are the translation operations of the WTS simply a "charitable activity" that enables the org to have tax-free status?
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  28

  A problem for believers

  by Bugbear in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a problem for believers!.

  a majority of the world’s population acknowledge that they believe in a superior god or in their creator.

  they also claim that they have got this special understanding and knowledge of his will and his law.

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  OrphanCrow

  “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.” ― Susan B. Anthony.
  
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  99

  January 19, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN WALES Re: Prerecorded Memorial and Special Talk 2017 - Welsh

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  january 19, 2017 to all bodies of elders in wales re: prerecorded memorial and special talk 2017 - welsh.

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  OrphanCrow

  RO: There is a legal definition of control over a corporation. The governing body does not have seats on the board of directors, nor are they voting members of the corporation. Technically the directors of the corporation can tell the GB to go and screw off if they wanted too, from a legal point of view. It is does the person have legal control over an organization or are they an employee of that corporation. The only thing that the GB are members of is the ROSFSJW.

  Exactly.

  That is what people on this forum and elsewhere have been saying for ages. And yet, whenever the suggestion comes up that the GB doesn't control the WTS and that the control of the org is "behind the scenes"...then everybody jumps up and down and accuses the person who made that claim as being a conspiracy nut.

  All the energy that people put into railing against the GB is pretty much useless - it is the corporation that has the power, not the GB
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  52

  Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

  by processor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

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  OrphanCrow

  
  

  Even Stalin could not eliminate Jehovah's Witnesses

  JEHOVAH AND THE PROSECUTOR. HOW THE STATE COMBATS A SECT
  

  Representative of organization says the actions of government confirm prophecy by Jesus Christ

  by Anton Bykov

  Open Russia, 17 January 2017

  The Jehovah's Witnesses—one of the largest religious organizations in the world—may be banned in Russia because of the distribution of extremist literature. In several cities adherents of this organization have already found themselves outside the law. Law enforcement agencies have pursued Jehovists for several years, and after the adoption of the antiextremist law in the country several regional congregations have been liquidated and witnesses have been subjected to criminal prosecution. However in the past year the prosecutor general began a decisive attack on Jehovah's Witnesses, threatening to enter the organizations into the list of extremists. In that case, all of its branches will be closed and the Jehovists themselves, who number in Russia about 100,000, will be deprived of the possibility of openly professing their religious views.
  
  On Monday, 16 January, a Moscow city court declined to satisfy an appeal filed by Jehovah's Witnesses against the action of the prosecutor general's office. Thereby the decision of a lower instance, which earlier had recognized as legal the warning about the impermissibility of committing extremist activity issued by the prosecutor's office against the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses, remained in force.

  *read full article at link - good background information

  more here: National Jehovah's Witnesses center rebuffed in court
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  52

  Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

  by processor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

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  OrphanCrow

  schnell: Is there a more credible source for this news than something like "star connect media"?

  From Forum18 May 2016:

  RUSSIA: Jehovah's Witnesses face possible liquidation

  *edit to add more info about the ECHR:

  http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=1724
  

  European Court of Human Rights
  While very slow, one possibility for redress against misapplication of the 2002 Extremism Law is the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. In June 2010 Jehovah's Witnesses lodged a complaint with the European Court over Russia's upholding of the Rostov regional ban on 34 Jehovah's Witness titles and their Taganrog community (Application No. 32401/10). By March 2012, Jehovah's Witnesses had submitted a further 13 applications to the European Court centring on numerous "counter-extremism" actions by the Russian state, including raids, prosecutions and bans on literature. The Court has yet to declare these cases admissible, and if it does it will be some years before they are heard.
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  52

  Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

  by processor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

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  OrphanCrow

  kpop: I'm sorry but I must side with Russia on this because they see the JW for what it is- a cult, not a normal religion and for that Russia is 100% right. This has nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with stopping cults not stopping religion or free speech because cults are damaging to families and communities!

  The blood transfusion ban is a critical point that Russia uses to define the JWs as "extremist":

  http://forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2197
  

  Other prohibited aims are more specific, including "the encouragement of suicide or the refusal on religious grounds of medical assistance to persons in a life- or health-endangering condition" and "the motivation of citizens to refuse to fulfil their civic duties as established by law and to commit other illegal acts" (see F18News 4 July 2016 http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2195).

  
  These accusations have been made against Jehovah's Witness communities in suits to have them liquidated as "extremist" (alongside more specific allegations of distribution of "extremist" literature), based on their refusal of blood transfusions and conscientious objection to military service (see eg. F18News 24 May 2016 http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2181).

  I will look for the case in Russia (it is somewhere on the Forum18 website) where a couple had ate poisonous mushrooms and the only anitdote was a blood transfusion. The man accepted one but the JW wife refused. The congregation rallied around her intially, a JW lawyer got involved, made a stink about her getting a "bloodless" treatment, the hospital acquiesced to the WT lawyer's demands and agreed to transfer her to another hospital, but nobody from the congregation showed up to take the woman to the other hospital for treatment and they never heard from the lawyer again. The JW woman and the staff waited...and then at the very last, the JW woman accepted blood. It was too late. She died.
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  52

  Russia to liquidate Jehovah's Witnesses' organization

  by processor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://starconnectmedia.com/2017/01/19/russia-gets-go-ahead-to-liquidate-jehovahs-witnesses-organisation/.

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  OrphanCrow

  Well, that didn't take long.

  According to the ECHR, there were "6" judgments handed down in 2016 for cases that involved the Jehovah's Witnesses. *oops - edit - hang on...I just did a search for "jehovah" but haven't checked the case details...that may be a wrong number)

  That is nowhere near the number you had stated, Fisherman:

  WT claims around 223 -to be exact.

  The ECHR claims 6. To be exact.

  You had said:

  Winning hundreds of cases in 2016 alone in the ECHR ! --the WT will also win this case

  Can you back this number up with sources, Fisherman? Or is this just a rumor that floats around in WT land?
  

  *edit to add - it looks like "jehovah" used for a search term showed up cases where it was a reference in another case. There actually is only one case that the Jehovah's Witnesses won - the one in Turkey

  One ECHR case won in 2016.

  Please correct me if I have made another mistake...