if you have the inclination, call the number and ask ..."is russia banning "reading the bible, singing and praying with fellow worshippers"??.
can you say red herring?.
maybe they should add "feeding your children is clearly not criminal, neither is helping an old woman cross the street".
bibleexaminer: Why, exactly, does the WATCHTOWER have a picture of a church in there?
AhA! They are appealing to the mentally weak. They try to make people believe that Russia is shutting down the churches!
No. That is not it at all.
They are using the image to illustrate the connections between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Kremlin.
if you have the inclination, call the number and ask ..."is russia banning "reading the bible, singing and praying with fellow worshippers"??.
can you say red herring?.
maybe they should add "feeding your children is clearly not criminal, neither is helping an old woman cross the street".
"Reading the Bible, singing, and praying with fellow worshippers is clearly not criminal"
Of course it isn't...but that is NOT the whole picture concerning what is going on in Russia with the JWs.
If that is all the JWs did in Russia, there would be zero problems for them but we all know that the JWs did not, could not, would not, stick to doing just that - meeting and praying together, reading the Bibble, like other religions do.
No...the JWs had to go and try to spread their viral ideas everywhere - they couldn't keep their anti-government apocalyptic message to themselves - they had to tell everybody else in Russia that their religion was the only true one and all people except JWs would be killed soon by their god.
jw's around the globe have been encouraged to write letters to putin and the russian government.
they are expected to give their personal details on the envelope.
i appreciate that this might be normal when writing to your own government if they are tolerant, but is this not a bit strange that the gb want to give putin the address of every jw in the world?
tor1500: Does anyone know if other religions are being banned as well ? Is this story just propaganda from the org and it's not a big deal in Russia?
I believe the JWs are the only religion facing a complete ban. But they certainly are not the only one that has been told to obey the law in Russia concerning religious activity.
This has not happened out of the blue because Putin was upset when he was woke up early on a Saturday morning by JW door knockers.
The JWs in Russia have consistently, over the past two decades at least, ignored the law concerning religious activity and they have deliberately broke that law over and over and over again. The JWs have refused to respect Russia. Deliberately.
The JWs in Russia have been warned over and over again to stop breaking the law by bringing in banned literature and their website has been banned but they have continued to ignore that and have put up mirror sites so that they can continue spreading their anti-government apocalyptic literature in Russia.
As per usual, the WTS wants to force their brand of pseudo religion/politics on Russia and force changes by pretending to be politically neutral when they are anything but that.
Russia isn't stupid - they know very well that they aren't dealing with a religion but instead are dealing with something made up to look like a religion for political and financial gain.
For good background and details on the situation Russia and elsewhere:
http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2261
In an analysis of available court verdicts, Forum 18 has found a total of 53 prosecutions (12 of organisations, 41 of individuals) since the new parts of Administrative Code Article 5.26 came into force on 20 July 2016. Only three women are known to have been charged (as well as two people whose gender is unknown), all other prosecutions being of men.
There were: 11 prosecutions (nine of organisations, two of community leaders) under Part 3 ("Implementation of activities by a religious organisation without indicating its official full name, including the issuing or distribution, within the framework of missionary activity, of literature and printed, audio, and video material without a label bearing this name, or with an incomplete or deliberately false label"); 35 prosecutions (three of organisations, 32 of individuals) under Part 4 ("Russians conducting missionary activity"); and seven prosecutions of individuals under Part 5 ("Foreigners conducting missionary activity").
Prosecutions have involved individuals or communities belonging to the following religious communities: independent Protestants – 18; Jehovah's Witnesses – 13; the Society of Krishna Consciousness (Hare Krishna devotees) – 7; Baptists – 5; Seventh-Day Adventists – 4; Buddhists – 2; New Apostolic Church – 1; Ukrainian Reformed Orthodox Church – 1; and Salvation Army – 1. One village elder who permitted an independent Protestant church to display a banner at a village festival in the Mari-El Republic was also charged.
For anyone who wants to find out more about the situation in Russia, and how the Russian courts have tried and tried to get the JWs to obey the law - with no success, of course - this is a blog written in Russian that has several court transcripts, etc concerning the JWs:
http://roman142.blogspot.ca/p/blog-page_07.html
The above link is in Russian but it translates not too badly using google translate.
For everyone who thinks that Russia knows nothing about the JWs and that this is just a knee jerk reaction by Putin, I think you are quite mistaken by that position - Russia knows things about the WTS that we don't even have our hands on in the Western world. I have read transcripts where the Russian court obviously has had access to elder/HLC letters two decades ago that are still not leaked/released here.
just had a wild conspiracy theory.
get your tin hats everyone.
what if this mass letter writing is all a bethel conspiracy to increase declining service hours?
Fisherman: Millions of letters are a lot of letters to shred
You're right. The Russians will probably just burn them.
Easier and less time wasted.
just had a wild conspiracy theory.
get your tin hats everyone.
what if this mass letter writing is all a bethel conspiracy to increase declining service hours?
Yup...I can see it now.
The peak publisher number will increase for next year's yearbook. An all time high for March 2017.
And just think how great it will look on the WT's submissions to the United Nations Human Rights Commissions. And on tax returns - oh! look at all the ministry we engage in! Because...you know...we aren't political at all!
jehovah's witnesses mobilize global response to threat of ban in russia.
march 21, 2017. https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/.
new york—threatened with an imminent ban on their worship in russia, jehovah’s witnesses are responding with a direct appeal to kremlin and supreme court officials for relief through a global letter-writing campaign.
Well, I guess that the WTS' "army" of minions have been called to action. They better get busy. The Supreme Court hearing is scheduled for April 5.
http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2265
I betcha the org has been doing their usual petitioning of "experts" to bolster their position. It hasn't worked before and I don't know why they think it will work this time. The historical documents that the Russian courts will be basing their decision on have already been created.
Oh...wait, maybe the WT does have some new material to submit to the Russian courts. Ha! They could send Putin this video where they get a glowing report from a notable person in the Trump administration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsbjCfWrOwM
Hecce: I am sure that the Russians remember this at the height of the cold war:.................AWAKE SEPTEMBER 8, 1960
And don't forget what the WT published 3 years later, in 1963:
"Babylon the Great Has Fallen God's Kingdom Rules". Who can ever forget the beating that Russia took in the chapter titled "Pouring out the Seven Last Plagues"?
Putin would have been 11 years old when that anti-Russia propaganda book came out. I remember reading that Babylon book when I was only 6 years old and knowing, without question, years later when I was old enough to understand what "politics" meant, that the WTS was not a religion. They had no business saying what they did about Russia in the Babylon book if they were only about religion and "politically neutral". Neutral, my ass.
Maybe the JWs should write their letters this way:
"Dearest Mr. Putin...we are so so so very sorry for being such dickheads to your country by saying Jehovah is going to kill everybody Russian if they don't do what our corporate religion in New York says. All that stuff about how evil Russia is...we were only kidding. And please don't pay any attention to that Kushner guy because you know...we are politically neutral and we only did business with him. Cause we be a church. The one and only right one."
jehovah's witnesses mobilize global response to threat of ban in russia.
march 21, 2017. https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/.
new york—threatened with an imminent ban on their worship in russia, jehovah’s witnesses are responding with a direct appeal to kremlin and supreme court officials for relief through a global letter-writing campaign.
blondie: Now there is a good example of Neutrality....not
Exactly. For all the bluster and assertions that "we are politically neutral", their actions say otherwise.
"Politically neutral" would mean that not only will they not stand with the government, they also don't stand in opposition to the government. And yet JWs in Russia, and everywhere else, go around telling everyone that "government is bad" and that world domination is going to be achieved by following the direction of a bunch of guys in New York. A bunch of guys that their followers think are going to become world rulers with Christ.
How is that not political? To actually claim that it is your religion that will dominate the world is political. The WTS claims to be a religion at the same time that they behave like a political movement.
jehovah's witnesses mobilize global response to threat of ban in russia.
march 21, 2017. https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/.
new york—threatened with an imminent ban on their worship in russia, jehovah’s witnesses are responding with a direct appeal to kremlin and supreme court officials for relief through a global letter-writing campaign.
Haha! I have a feeling that a letter writing campaign isn't going to go over well with Russia.
What a stupid response - to actually do exactly what it is that Russia is pissed off about - evangelism.
When they write their letters, maybe the JWs should try to defend their suicide pacts with the WTS:
A Russian newspaper reports that the community opposition to blood transfusions has killed 18 people, including eight children. Two investigations opened in Kogalym and Moscow.
Moscow (AsiaNews) - The refusal of blood transfusions by Jehovah's Witnesses has killed 18 people, including eight children. This is the accusation against the religious community, for years the object of persecution and discrimination in Russia, that appeared on the pages of Komsomolskaya Pravda. The newspaper, the most widely read in the Federation, tells the story of of these deaths. According to the newspaper, the authorities have already opened investigations into the death of two children: one in Kogalym the other in Moscow.
If the WTS wants their religion to not be considered an "extremist" organization, they need to stop asking their members to engage in extreme behavior. Committing suicide, in the face of medical doctors who hold a life saving measure in their hands, is not the behavior of sane and rational people. It is extreme behavior that costs real lives and impacts everybody around them.
Freedom of religion is one thing...but the freedom to do what you want by disregarding the laws of the country you are in is quite another. Claiming religious freedom does not give you the right to infringe on other peoples' freedom from religion. Going around telling other people that their religion or way of life is wrong and God only loves JWs is a divisive action, not a unifying one.
I think Russia has a long memory and they aren't ready to forgive the WTS for the campaign they have launched against the "King of the North" in the past. A letter writing campaign mounted by evangelizers is the last thing that will work in this situation. The only thing it is going to do is give JWs an opportunity to fill in their time cards so that the WTS gets their US tax break for engaging in "charitable"/letter writing activity.
And, with the help of all those people in the Western media, the GB can divert attention from all the crap they are trying to pull off everywhere else concerning their keeping child abuse secret.
I think that the GB is welcoming the Russia controversy - get the world to point fingers at Russia and maybe people will ignore what is coming out of Australia and elsewhere about child abuse.
in february 2017, the european association of jehovah's witnesses made a "submission to un human rights committee subsequent to the adoption of the list of issues on the sixth periodic report of italy".. the 119th session of the human rights committee is currently underway - the dates are march 6 - march 29.. the wts has been trying to get "intesa" status in italy for decades and this latest submission to the un highlights the problems the jws are encountering in italy concerning the blood taboo.. this link will take you to a downloadable word document that is the wt's submission being considered:.
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/treaties/ccpr/shared%20documents/ita/int_ccpr_css_ita_26670_e.docx.
23676 of 2008: mr grassato (one of jehovah’s witnesses) was unconscious when admitted to the hospital.
Fisherman: I read the Italy cases. It seems to me that the Caesar of Italy has already pre-decided on all cases of JW refusing blood when doctors deem it medically necessary.
Yes, it does seem to be that way. It is as though the courts are saying that a religious belief is not a good enough reason to commit suicide in the face of a life saving procedure.
Refusing medical treatment is one thing, but once that decision concerns the refusal of life itself, it becomes a case for "right to die". And, a JW patient who is simply refusing to live would not qualify for "right to die" - they would not be terminal at the time that they chose to die by refusing blood when they signed their cards and would very much be capable of living beyond their death decision if they chose blood.
I think that the so-called "noblood" card should be challenged under right to die laws. If a JW patient doesn't qualify for "right to die", they should not be allowed to refuse a blood transfusion. The decision should rest with the doctor as to whether a life saving procedure is necessary and if that patient does not qualify for "right to die", there should be nothing standing in the way of the doctor's decision to transfuse.
in february 2017, the european association of jehovah's witnesses made a "submission to un human rights committee subsequent to the adoption of the list of issues on the sixth periodic report of italy".. the 119th session of the human rights committee is currently underway - the dates are march 6 - march 29.. the wts has been trying to get "intesa" status in italy for decades and this latest submission to the un highlights the problems the jws are encountering in italy concerning the blood taboo.. this link will take you to a downloadable word document that is the wt's submission being considered:.
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/treaties/ccpr/shared%20documents/ita/int_ccpr_css_ita_26670_e.docx.
23676 of 2008: mr grassato (one of jehovah’s witnesses) was unconscious when admitted to the hospital.
RO: It is your body you get to decide what medical treatments you allow and which you deny.
I agree. I am all for bodily autonomy. Without question.
With that said, though, I am also strongly in favor of correct information being given to people so that they can exercise the right of bodily autonomy based on what is real as opposed to what they think is real.
For that reason, I am adamantly opposed to people being given incorrect medical advice. The WT does not give correct medical information. They have bolstered their "religious rights" with wrong and incomplete medical advice.
Check this out:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Blood_Transfusions:_How_Safe
If the WT was a bottle of pills, they would be required to display a black box warning for side effects associated with those pills. Yet, they can promote alternatives to blood transfusions and never once articulate the risks involved in choosing those over the safest medical intervention we have - a blood transfusion.
