Posts by OrphanCrow

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

OrphanCrow

cofty: Who is responsible? Knor? Franz?

Both of them.

Knorr and Franz both held the reins to power in 1945 when they added blood transfusions to their restrictions on blood consumption.

The blood taboo could have relaxed in the next few years, and it did somewhat. There were signs that the blood phobia craze could fizzle. JWs didn't always comply and they faced loss after loss in the courts. But what happened?

In 1961, Knorr and Franz, the power duo, came down hard on the JWs and made taking a blood transfusion a disfellowshipping offense. At the exact same time that medical science, using blood transfusion technology, had developed a way to create a bloodless surgical field.

It was Knorr and Franz who fed the flames of Armageddon in the years following that, using the blood prohibition - the ban against sharing blood - as a sign of separateness from "the world". A way of "taking a stand". And more people died.

And then, when the '75 flames died down, what did Knorr/Franz do? They gave authority and birth to the "Hospital Information Services". That is their legacy. The HLC, the blood squad, comes from Knorr and Franz. From both of them.

And more people die. Every day.

Because of Knorr and Franz. And their bloodless legacy.

*good thread, cofty. It makes people think.

14

Are any of the governing body going to russia for the court case?!

by nowwhat? in

i think it would be great if the gb could testify on behalf of the russia brothers they say care so much about.

if nothing else it would show the dear russian brothers that jehovahs organization has their back.

and give them moral support.

OrphanCrow

Blondie, I read that Spokane piece (press release submitted by the JWs) as well and I thought it was misleading of the JW to say:

"“We just want to be able to exercise our freedom of religion as we have in every place in the world,” Hardy said."

He makes it sound like Russia is only place in the world that is saying "no" to the Jehovah's Witnesses practice of evangelizing. Russia isn't the only country that isn't pleased with the JWs. What about China? Singapore? Iraq? Morocco?

He also says this:

“We’re very concerned about what will happen to our fellow Witnesses in Russia,” Hardy said.

Really? Concerned about individual Russian JWs? I don't think so. This aggressive move by the GB, to call to pen and paper of their 8 million followers to launch a paper attack on the Kremlin, is an incredibly irresponsible move that will increase the risk to JWs in Russia. And the GB knows this very well. They know it will make it more dangerous for the JWs in Russia, not less.

What this WT spokesman fails to say is that this letter writing campaign is being done to protect the WT assets in Russia and it disregards the individuals themselves. The WT property is losing "freedom of religion". The WTS in Russia is a foreign organization. The individual Russian JWs aren't.

It is the WTS organization that is facing a ban - the Russian JWs aren't. They will continue to be free to believe whatever they want - as long as they follow the law in Russia against spreading their infectious ideas. But the org doesn't want that. They don't want peaceful, happy JWs in Russia - they want all the rest of the people in Russia to be exposed to their anti-government teachings.

That is why this letter writing campaign is so so dangerous for the JWs who are living in Russia. This action proves to the Russian authorities that the JWs are a group of people who will unquestioningly follow the commands of leaders outside of Russia. This is very bad. Very bad. Russians do not trust outsiders - hell, they don't even trust their own people. Russia is not a country that will be receptive to outsiders coming in and telling their people how they are supposed to resist the government and that their "worldy/earthly" government is going to be destroyed by god. In a horrible Armageddon scenario. And replaced with a group of men from New York that will reign over Russia and the whole world. They preach world supremacy. World supremacy of their group and their group only.

If there is one action that will prove to the Russian authorities that they are right to be concerned about an anti-government group spreading in Russia, this letter writing campaign will seal the deal.

The GB know exactly what they are doing. The GB are irresponsible. They know that this will make it worse for the JWs, not better.

22

Chairman of the St Petersburg-based Administrative Centre of JWs issues press release - Forum 18

by OrphanCrow in

according to the latest forum 18 article, this is what happened in russia on march 15:.

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2265.

with immediate effect, a 15 march suspension order forbids the administrative centre and all its local religious organisations from "using state and municipal news media, organising and conducting assemblies, rallies, demonstrations, processions, picketing, and other mass actions or public events, and using bank deposits, with the exception of use for making payments connected with their economic activity, compensating for losses (damages) caused by their actions, and paying taxes, fees, or fines, and making payments based on labour contracts" .

OrphanCrow

*by the way, darkspliver...I do know that you are trying to be helpful, but I find that posting walls of text that has been written by the very org that we are putting under scrutiny, isn't really all that helpful. All that does is make it difficult for people, who use their phones to read this site, to scroll through watchtower generated propaganda. I don't read that stuff unless I am planning on criticizing the way it is written or to point out the errors that have been printed. Just posting it is non-productive. All that does is circulate WT material for them. Jus' sayin'*

But back to the letter writing. I have spent some time reading material from Russian exJWs and they made a couple interesting points about this letter campaign.

Firstly, one poster had mentioned how this campaign is going to prove to the Russian authorities that the JWs are a group of people that will follow, unquestioningly, whatever they are told to do by their American leaders. This is not a good thing in the face of an "extremism" charge.

Secondly, it was discussed that the JWs know that this initiative will do drastic things to the Russian postal service. In fact, jwtalk confirms that. The JWs are all excited over the fact that the Russian postal service is going to get slammed and that their letters have the potential to disrupt that service. That is a problem which could turn into a huge, huge problem for the org. The word used to describe this deliberately aggressive letter writing campaign is "sabotage". Sabotage of the Russian postal system. By an American corporate religion. Done with intent and for malicious reasons - to shut down or overload the postal service and cause problems for the Russian government. Bad news for the WTS. Jail terms seem certain for the WT guys at the Administrative Center.

The JWs are insane. Delusional and behaving like lunatics.

22

Chairman of the St Petersburg-based Administrative Centre of JWs issues press release - Forum 18

by OrphanCrow in

according to the latest forum 18 article, this is what happened in russia on march 15:.

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2265.

with immediate effect, a 15 march suspension order forbids the administrative centre and all its local religious organisations from "using state and municipal news media, organising and conducting assemblies, rallies, demonstrations, processions, picketing, and other mass actions or public events, and using bank deposits, with the exception of use for making payments connected with their economic activity, compensating for losses (damages) caused by their actions, and paying taxes, fees, or fines, and making payments based on labour contracts" .

OrphanCrow

Lostgeneration: I'd love it if Russia boxed up all the letters, drop shipped them to Brooklyn with a note on the box(es) saying "A little housewarming gift for you to take to your new HQ."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5xxh5UX4U

22

Chairman of the St Petersburg-based Administrative Centre of JWs issues press release - Forum 18

by OrphanCrow in

according to the latest forum 18 article, this is what happened in russia on march 15:.

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2265.

with immediate effect, a 15 march suspension order forbids the administrative centre and all its local religious organisations from "using state and municipal news media, organising and conducting assemblies, rallies, demonstrations, processions, picketing, and other mass actions or public events, and using bank deposits, with the exception of use for making payments connected with their economic activity, compensating for losses (damages) caused by their actions, and paying taxes, fees, or fines, and making payments based on labour contracts" .

OrphanCrow

dsp: sorry you haven't been able to find it - here is the direct link to the page - it is featured on the Italian front page

No need to apologize. I wasn't looking for it.

I was only posting what someone over on jwtalk had said.

Thank you for your diligence. Because I wasn't going to go and wander around jworg sites to find out whether the Italian website had been updated since that comment had been made.

Again. Thank you. Updated and accurate information is important.

6

Trump pledges to 'totally destroy' law that bars political speech by churches, other orgs

by OrphanCrow in

no wonder the gb aren't too concerned about getting involved in foreign politics.

they have rutherford's clone on their side.. https://www.rt.com/usa/376119-trump-political-speech-churches/.

at the national prayer breakfast, president donald trump repeated a campaign promise, vowing to end the federal law that restricts political speech and activity by churches and other tax-exempt organizations.

OrphanCrow

Simon: Trump is a fool, he can only view things though the lens of how something affects him and his support. He seems incapable of contemplating the effect that many of his changes would actually have.

Yeah...he sounds a little like this guy:

Image result for judge rutherford

6

2015 Letter writing Campaign called by WTS in Russia

by OrphanCrow in

i just found a thread on jwforum.eu about the massive letter writing campaign that was launched by the russian jws back in 2015. apparently, emails were okay in that assault - that is likely why the org doesn't want emails this time and why their instructions are so specific.

email correspondence has likely been severely curtailed for the jws after that campaign.. this is a link to the forum - it will come up in russian but translate works fairly well.

the russian letters have been translated below the first letters:.

OrphanCrow

Thank you, darkspliver for posting the Russian version of the letter.

Much appreciated.

6

2015 Letter writing Campaign called by WTS in Russia

by OrphanCrow in

i just found a thread on jwforum.eu about the massive letter writing campaign that was launched by the russian jws back in 2015. apparently, emails were okay in that assault - that is likely why the org doesn't want emails this time and why their instructions are so specific.

email correspondence has likely been severely curtailed for the jws after that campaign.. this is a link to the forum - it will come up in russian but translate works fairly well.

the russian letters have been translated below the first letters:.

OrphanCrow

dsp: TBH I suspect the email/electronic methods are only for Russian citizens to use, sending from within Russia - wouldn't be surprised if there some kind of firewall in place to stop internet attacks etc from outside Russia.
Hence the need for old fashioned 'hard copies' viapen, paper, envelopes.

Yes, that is probably correct. A flood of foreign emails directed to the Kremlin would, correctly, be interpreted as spam and, if I am reading the bad Russian translation correctly on the forum I linked to, it is likely also illegal.

From what I have read on that forum, the JWs in Russian were told that the Kremlin would not respond to emails, only to letters sent in the mail.

Which is understandable considering the Russian government was buried with emails from Russian JWs back in 2015.

Thank you for flagging up this letter from two years ago

Well...I didn't really "flag it up". I just discussed it in connection with the post I made. I guess if that is flagging it up, tho...I flagged it up. I haven't seen it posted on this forum before and thank you for posting the "official" links.

I could missed this "old" and "outdated" information (from two years ago!!) concerning the Russian JWs launching a letter writing campaign, if it had, indeed, been posted on this forum before. But, if it has been posted before (two years ago!), I apologize if it offended your sensibilities that I brought it up again.

It seemed a bit relevant at this time. Even more so than it was two years ago. Context and all that, you know. Passage of time and how things have developed.

6

2015 Letter writing Campaign called by WTS in Russia

by OrphanCrow in

i just found a thread on jwforum.eu about the massive letter writing campaign that was launched by the russian jws back in 2015. apparently, emails were okay in that assault - that is likely why the org doesn't want emails this time and why their instructions are so specific.

email correspondence has likely been severely curtailed for the jws after that campaign.. this is a link to the forum - it will come up in russian but translate works fairly well.

the russian letters have been translated below the first letters:.

OrphanCrow

And more evidence that the WTS knew that they were likely going to have their bank accounts frozen before the raid on March 16.

In February 2017, the Administrative Center in Russia sent a letter out to the Russian congregations to stop sending their donations into the Administrative Center.

http://www.jwforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19167

6

2015 Letter writing Campaign called by WTS in Russia

by OrphanCrow in

i just found a thread on jwforum.eu about the massive letter writing campaign that was launched by the russian jws back in 2015. apparently, emails were okay in that assault - that is likely why the org doesn't want emails this time and why their instructions are so specific.

email correspondence has likely been severely curtailed for the jws after that campaign.. this is a link to the forum - it will come up in russian but translate works fairly well.

the russian letters have been translated below the first letters:.

OrphanCrow

This is from the first thread I linked to in the above post - just a bit of background...:

I remember, when making the Federal Law of 26.09.1997 N 125-FZ "On Freedom of Conscience and Religious Associations" in the original text of the document referred to the impossibility of registering religious organizations that prohibit their members transfusion.
Then all of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia collected signatures under the appeal to Yeltsin with a request to control the situation. It is not known whether affected once the signatures on the text of the law, but the point of blood transfusion was excluded.
Apparently, now too they are hoping to influence the president. Perhaps it helps.
PS The federal law from 26.09.1997 N 125-FZ "On Freedom of Conscience and Religious Associations" is already in the version of 13.07.2015. It should be at leisure to see what has changed