Posts by OrphanCrow

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

pbrow: Can you imagine what would happen if Russia even attempted to ban islam?

If it had been all Christian religions that got banned in Russia, it would make sense to make that inquiry. That didn't happen. Just one very small Christian sect got banned - the JWs. It is not realistic to equate the banning of a small religion that calls itself Christian with the banning of all of Islam

In Russia there is at least one Islamic sect that is banned - the Tabligh Jamaat missionary movement of the Sunni Muslims was banned in 2013.

http://forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2272

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

LongHairGal: I'm sure the only thing the Russians were impressed with was the magnitude of stupidity and wasted time and resources. Maybe the tons of letters will be put to good use heating people's fireplaces over there.

Lol! You have no idea how true that is!

I have a Russian friend with whom I have discussed the happenings and circumstances of this 'ban'. When I told him about the letter writing, he laughed and laughed. He thought it was so silly. He drew a picture of a snail "this is Russian post system". It takes six months and more for a parcel to reach his father back in Russia.

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

LongHairGal: You can talk endlessly about human rights and freedom of religion but when a country going through hard times has a dictator this all goes out the window!

Of course.

Russia also has a history of terrorism and has had problems with the control of terrorism for longer than America has. Their history plays into this situation as well.

For example, wars in Chechnya and terrorist infiltration into Russia for funding of military disturbances and such. In close neighboring countries. Recently. Areas of Russia, like Chechnya, can be pretty tense and religious/political boundaries might get blurry. And militant.

Russia has established religious factions and traditions that go back centuries - long before North America was even settled/colonized. And then a period of no religion during the Soviet era. Much political turmoil and religious disruption in the past 100 years. From a monarchy to a wee little hiccup of socialism, into hard core communism, sliding out on a socialist wing...capitalism...and now the revolution comes full swing...back to a 'monarch' type system.

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

zeb: There are apx 175,000 jw in Russia. The wt has more than enough money to repatriate them to safety and set them up with a house and basics but the wt wont as they want more martyrs. The Russian govt could do worse than tell wt to take these people and feed house and look after them.

Just think how large the fund could have been, if the JWs had pooled their money to actually help Russian JWs through sponsorship and relocation. Instead of buying stationery and postage. For media attention.

I have read of several Russian JWs already leaving and re-locating. To sunny places (California for one). But those are only the JWs with money and/or influence. I guess they will pray from a safe distance for their "brothers and sisters still suffering" back home in Russia.

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

waton: It will drag on, it is not final.

The WTS has 30 days to appeal - which they will do.

However, the only thing that they can appeal on are procedural points. They cannot just say - "we are right and you are wrong in this verdict" and proceed to enter new evidence. They can't do that. They have to prove a procedural point of the hearing was wrong. The WTS will have very little wiggle room on an appeal.

It won't matter if the WTS tries to involve the ECHR - they already tried that and the documents were rejected as having no bearing on the charges being considered.

As far "banning all of them" goes, what is happening is that the organization is being dismantled - property seized and no more WTS in Russia. No more HLC and no more congregational instructions. Belief can still be held, there just won't be any support for it. And practices (preaching, blood refusal, etc) will not be allowed. If the Russian JWs' faith is dependent on instructions from the WTS and the reading of WT approved literature, then I suppose you could say that they are all 'banned'.

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

You know, regardless of whether people are for or against this ban, I have yet to hear anybody wish bad upon the Russian JWs. Even those who support the ban have never called for the destruction/death of the JWs themselves. And yet, this is what is a typical response from the JWs (jwtalk):

If banning us in Russia puts that country in a bad light, wait until they start arresting our dear brothers and sisters. Let the world see the Russian Government putting thousands of brothers and sisters in jail, along with children, infants and our dear older ones. As much as the world hates the message we preach, they will still be appalled at the outright denial of human rights and the freedoms that we all hold dear around the world. I really hope we all get to see the faces of all those who opposed us in this time of the end, I really want to see the country leaders, religious false prophets and all those who tried to stamp us out have to come to the realization that they were all wrong, and then.......destruction. Instant removal would be too good for them. Let them all know what they have done. And then Jehovah will end them once and for all. Arrogance has no place left to hide.

And they wonder why they are being labelled extremist. They have hate in their hearts and wish for the destruction of anyone and everyone who opposes them.

Not only that, but they look forward to the Russian JWs getting arrested. Why? For a 'witness'. How sick. To use those JWs as visible 'proof' that the JWs are right. I have yet to hear of anyone who supports the ban hope for the arrest and persecution of the Russian JWs but the JWs themselves do. Sick people.

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

sparrowdown: OC - like ×3.

Me too. I would shout this from the rooftops if I could....and dance a happy dance for the next...forever and a day.

When the blood transfusion issue was addressed in the court, the JW lawyer tried to submit reams of documents to the court but they were rejected. I assume the lawyers were attempting to present all that material, that they so arduously collect and promote, from their "approved" medical professionals, extolling the virtues of "bloodless" medicine.

The Russian court rejected that so-called evidence. I don't blame them for not accepting it - it would be like someone who murdered their friend but then submitted a whole pile of photos, of them smiling and having fun together, as evidence of their innocence. While ignoring the blood that was found on their hands and clothing after they had killed their friend.

JWs have already died in Russia because of the blood ban. No amount of documents from medical professionals will change that. It already happened and there is no defense for it.

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

sparrowdown: Very interested to see what effect this will have....

No Hospital Liaison Committees in Russia.

No unqualified JWs pressuring Russian medical doctors to treat JWs using WT approved alternative treatments.

No religious blood transfusion refusal.

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

*delete double post

184

Outcome - Banned in Russia - Final

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched the live feed from the russian court room and followed the updates on the russian exjw forum.. just waiting for confirmation from other sources...but, it looks like the final (and expected) result is:.

banned.

which means that the wts property in russia now belongs to the russian state..

OrphanCrow

*I apologize if this double posts...

Watching the live video feed was interesting.

It was broadcast from the jw-russian org site (JW source) and the activity that was shown during the break was a sight to behold. Mark Sanderson's face must be sore from all the smiling for the JW paparazzi, posing with locals, and the level of noise was fairly high. Lots of chatting, smiling and shaking hands, half hugs, etc among the JWs. One apostate spotted - no suit and long hair - and when he got up from his seat, the grimace and obvious 'don't touch!' body language from the one JW woman he came close to was evident.*

This was in sharp contrast to the mood in the court room after the judgement was read - quiet and somber...and video feed cut.

*the behavior of the JWs towards the 'apostates' that showed up to court was discussed on the exJW/JW Russian forum a few days ago. It was reported that the obvious dislike and derision from the JW spectators towards those exJWs appearing to testify was palatable and did not go unnoticed by the Russian court officials. The JW reaction to the exJW testimony even included laughing at parts of what was being said concerning their maltreatment at the hands of the JWs/WTS