Posts by OrphanCrow

So. Let me guess. Would any of those companies, that sell the supporting material for those cart frames from China, have a spot on their tax returns for non-taxable donations to charities? By donating to the WTS/org? I wonder how much donation$ the org gets from these spin off businesses.

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A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

You are welcome, Possum. It is difficult to stay on top of where blood research is actually at.

Finkelstein: ...added that the blood did not come from a dead human being as in the original conception and understanding

Actually, that is a wee bit incorrect, Finklestein. The "original conception and understanding" had nothing at all to do with human blood. The directive from "Yahweh"/Moses/priests concerned animal blood. A dead animal. Not a dead human. Or live human, for that matter.

It was not human blood that was either to be "put on the altar" or "poured upon the ground". It was animal blood that was used for sacrificial rites. Like cow's blood. Which, according to that old scriptural directive, was to be poured on the ground. Not collected and processed into blood for "god's chosen people".

Jake: So, you can take blood as a witness and say that it was only a blood fraction and remain in good standing.

Uh...no. And yes. It depends.

It depends on whether the WTS says you can or not. And, only WT "approved" fractions allowed.

The WT controls which blood fractions the JW population can use and when. "Minor blood fractions". Another WT bloodspeak phrase. Only the WT calls fractionated blood components "fractions" and only they call those components "minor".

Those "minor blood fractions" are what some psychologists would term a "small favor". It is one of the techniques that a captor will use on their victims to get them to be compliant and to "turn" them. Make them loyal to their captor. This has happened in hostage taking situations. A prisoner is deprived on something basic and essential. And then, the captor "gifts" a tiny amount of what is being held back. This cements an emotional contract between the prisoner and the captor - the prisoner is grateful for small favors and in turn, becomes loyal to the one who captured them.

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

darkspliver: Sorry, I didn't post it for you to read.

Oh...please don't apologize. I didn't mean that your posting the story wasn't wanted or needed. I hope other people read it. Phil's story should be shared.

Thanks for posting it. It is relevant.

Vidiot: So basically, "bloodless" surgery actually requires blood.
Which makes the term "bloodless" essentially meaningless.

Yes. "Bloodless" surgery/medicine is a misnomer. A made up created term that the WT has exploited and misrepresented in order to give the impression that "bloodless" means "not using blood".

Not true.

"Bloodless" actually refers to the creation of a bloodless surgical field. The term was first used by surgeons such as Denton Cooley but it did not mean "without blood transfusions". It meant that the heart was drained of blood and became bloodless - therefore making it accessible to surgical procedures. That was back in the early 60s. Incidentally...right before the WTS made taking a blood transfusion a disfellowshipping offense (1961).

The WTS, and their affiliated medical "professionals", appropriated the term "bloodless", along with all the blood transfusion technology developed up to that point, and promoted the heart and lung procedure for surgery other than heart surgeries. Voila! The birth of the WT's so called "bloodless" surgery. That uses blood transfusion technology and blood products/fractions. To creat a bloodless patient.

Bloodless? No. The patient is bloodless - the procedure itself is anything but bloodless.

Watchtower bloodspeak. Deceptive and misleading. Intentionally.

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

Darkspliver, Phil's story - and many others like him - is what exposes that underbelly of the no blood world that the WT doesn't talk about.

The media is full of the fluff press releases that appear from time to time that extol the miracles of someone surviving a no blood procedure or something like that. And medical studies analyze case reports of JWs to determine "How Low Can you Go?" to get baseline measurements of death.

And mortality rates are compared (with poor methods of analysis) but morbidity is ignored. What is almost never spoken about is the increased suffering and increased pain that accompanies no blood options. Contrary to what people would expect, death (and sometimes survival) from blood refusal is long and painful. Not a happy way to endure what is already a horrible condition.

I know this personally. When I was 6 years old, my uncle was diagnosed with brain cancer. It was an operable tumor. Except it wasn't because of blood refusal. It was a long and painful year - my uncle was buried just before my seventh birthday. A horrible year of pain and suffering - because of refusing blood.

That is why I didn't have to read Phil's story, Darkspliver. I am happy he survived. My uncle didn't. And I watched him die. Slowly. When I was six years old.

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

Vidiot: Personally, I suspect the fraction justifications that started out back in the 90s were really the Org's fumbly attempts to explain why many blood-related treatments (like Hemopure) had already been allowed, in response to some of the smarter rank-and-filers out there asking "why?"...

Of course. That is the history of the shifting blood doctrine.

Almost all of the "now allowed" procedures/blood products etc that have been officially published in WT literature, have been preceded by those procedures/products already being used for sometimes years before reaching that "approved" status.

For example, it was in the 90s (94?) that the WT finally approved acute normovolemic hemodilution and yet the medical literature has many cases of JWs who were having that procedure long before the WT approved/admitted it. The same with cell salvage machines.

Most WT approved procedures are simply admitted procedures. When they have to. Or when they want to brag /promote a procedure or product.

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

TD: The idea that "fractions" are no longer blood is unique to a loose knit group of dull witted internet apologists and is not actually the position taken by the JW parent organization.

That could be.

That is why the WT's blood doctrine is so dangerous. They have inconsistently applied an ancient directive to a group of people while at the same time, have used that doctrine to manipulate, and profit from, medical research that their "doctrine" has fostered.

It is not surprising that some JWs, the true believers who need a "logical" explanation for something that is so illogical, come up with convoluted reasoning to make the WT seem reasonable. They have to. The WT has forced them into that position.

If the "parent" WT does, then, acknowledge that "blood fractions" are still blood....then why is there a no blood doctrine at all? Why is blood still "banned"? Why do they still say that they refuse blood transfusions when they don't? Why don't they be honest and say..."we don't refuse blood transfusions...we just use special kinds of blood, and the special parts of blood"?

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

pubsinger: Ask a JW if it's ok to be a blood donor? No blood fractions can be obtained without blood donation.

It isn't just "blood fractions" that rely on a donor pool.

So-called "artificial blood" also uses donor blood.

Polyheme, approved by the WT (arranged by the HLC through "compassionate use"), is derived from expired human blood. The hemoglobin is removed, stored, processed, and turned into a manufactured blood product. And used on JW patients.

Hemopure (now known under different names) is a bovine blood product. Made from the blood of donor cows. Herds of cows are raised in carefully controlled environments (apparently), and when they are slaughtered, their blood is drained, collected, cooled, and then processed to remove the hemoglobin. From that, WT approved "artificial" blood is made. And transfused into the veins of that "fraction" of the Jehovah's Witness community that will accept the added risk of using that kind of blood - animal blood that was not spilled upon the ground.

Donate blood? Of course not. The JW community just sucks the blood of the world - in whatever form the WT tells them to - processed blood. They don't avoid blood - they avoid giving blood. They won't share their blood.

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

Something I forgot to say about clotting factors.

The information I posted about how those factors are made/sourced, comes from a hemophilia organization.

However, those clotting factors are also used in surgical procedures. Especially so for Jehovah's Witnesses who elect "bloodless" procedures. Those fractions of blood, that help the blood to clot, are essential to bloodless surgery.

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

Possum: Hemophiliac preparations (Factor VIII and IX)(Approved): It takes about 9000 kilograms of whole blood to make one 0.1 gram dose of Factor VIII. A person suffering from severe hemophilia typically requires several doses a year.
The Watchtower Society is not ignorant of this:
More than 250,000 blood donations are required annually to produce the factor VIII, and factor IX that is consumed by the Jehovah’s Witness community. Huge vats could be filled with all of the human blood that is stored and processed to meet the needs of Witness Hemophiliacs.The Watchtower ignores these facts when explaining why it allows use of these “small fractions,” but cynically emphasizes them when it uses AIDS as propaganda against blood transfusions.

“Each batch of Factor VIII is made from plasma that is pooled from as many as 2,500 blood donors.” (The Watchtower, June 15, 1985, p. 30)

“Dr. Margaret Hilgartner of the New York Hospital-Cornell Medical Center said: “A severe hemophiliac is exposed to the blood of 800,000 to 1 million different people every year.”” (Awake! Oct. 8, 1988, p. 11)
More than 250,000 blood donations are required annually to produce the factor VIII, and factor IX that is consumed by the Jehovah’s Witness community. Huge vats could be filled with all of the human blood that is stored and processed to meet the needs of Witness Hemophiliacs.The Watchtower ignores these facts when explaining why it allows use of these “small fractions,” but cynically emphasizes them when it uses AIDS as propaganda against blood transfusions.

The information you posted is somewhat out of date. Note that the WT quotes are from the 80s.

The developments in blood medicine since that time have led to both factor vii and factor ix being genetically engineered, which it is called "recombinant" factor viii/xi.These fractions are now made from the cells of hamster kidneys. Most Western countries prefer to use this source rather than plasma for these clotting factors and it is recombinant factor vii and factor ix that is most often used - and of course, preferred by the JWs.

How are factor VIII and IX concentrates made?
Factor VIII and IX concentrates can be divided into two categories:
recombinant, genetically engineered factor VIII and IX
plasma-derived factor VIII and IX.

Recombinant, genetically engineered factor VIII and IX
Recombinant, genetically engineered factor VIII and IX are not made from human plasma. They are made like this.
The human factor VIII (or IX) gene is isolated through genetic engineering. The gene contains the code which has instructions for the cell on how to make human factor VIII (or IX).
The gene is inserted into non-human cells, such as baby hamster kidney cells or Chinese hamster ovary cells.
These cells are grown in a cell culture. They produce factor VIII (or IX).
The factor VIII (or IX) is separated from the cell culture and purified.
Sucrose is then added to stabilize the final factor VIII (or IX) product.

Plasma-derived factor VIII and IX
Plasma-derived factor VIII and IX are made from human plasma. Plasma donations are pooled together in a pharmaceutical plant. Then, the plasma is separated into different products. This is called fractionation. The main products are:
albumin (to treat burns)
immune globulins (to treat problems of the immune system)
factor VIII (to treat hemophilia A)
factor IX (to treat hemophilia B).
What are the blood products of choice for hemophilia A?
Genetically engineered (recombinant) factor VIII is the clotting factor concentrate used by most Canadians with hemophilia A. It has been the product of choice since being introduced in 1993. The brand names used in Canada are Advate®, Kogenate®FS and Xyntha®. In Quebec, Eloctate®, an extended half-life product, was introduced in 2015 for patients with specific needs.
Plasma-derived factor VIII is sometimes used in particular situations for the treatment of hemophilia A: 1) for previously untreated patients who may be at higher risk for the development of inhibitors and 2) for immune tolerance induction for patients who have already developed antibodies to factor VIII. Brand names used in Canada are Humate P® and Wilate®.
What are the blood products of choice for hemophilia B?
Recombinant factor IX, which goes under the brand name of Benefix® is the blood product used by most Canadians with hemophilia B. It was introduced in Canada on a regular basis in 1998. In Quebec, AlprolixTM, an extended half-life product, was introduced in 2015 for patients with specific needs.
Plasma-derived factor IX is also used by Canadians with hemophilia B. The brand name used in Canada is ImmunineVH®.

More information here:

Factor replacement therapy

So, now Jehovah's Witnesses can access clotting factors that has been manufactured from hamster cells and avoid the use of human plasma derived clotting factors.

And this is why I was trying to find out the WT's position on the use of stem cells. I am curious how they will scripturally justify using the upcoming stem cell derived "artificial" blood that is about to enter into trials.

It is odd that the WT views blood that was supposedly created by their Jehovah to be off limits (except for all those plasma derived blood products they have used for years before genetically engineered factors became possible) and yet what they approve is blood that is manufactured. Blood that tries (and fails) to do the same job that the god-created blood does.

Whenever i have tried to discuss blood with JWs, they fall into the default position of saying "oh...but blood is a symbol of life" and my question to that is this: what does manufactured blood symbolize if not exactly the same thing? Why can it be used? Does not artificial blood and alternatives to blood symbolize life as well?

smiddy: Doesnt the Bible say words to the effect that :
"blood is not to be stored and that it is to be poured out on the ground " ?
Doesnt that rule out collecting blood ,processing it in a laboratory into fractions ,then storing it again to be used at some later date by a Jehovahs Witness who refuses Blood products ?
Just asking.

Of course it does. And the WT's doctrine breaks that injunction all the time. It isn't a doctrine based on the Bible - it is a doctrine that they twist the scriptures to fit. Their "doctrine" arises outside of anything that could be considered "holy" and the WT has tried to disguise it as a "religious doctrine" when it is anything but.

The only way that the WT can justify that they are following the bible scripture is if they claim that the blood used for fractions is the "blood poured on the altar"* rather than the blood spilled on the ground.

*maybe they use blood "altar-natives"

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

OrphanCrow

vidiot: @ OrphanCrow...
Didn't you once mention that the Org's "blood phobia" may have actually had its historical origins in the privately held racist views of certain WT higher-ups way back in the day?
That they didn't want to risk getting transfused with blood from black people or somesuch, so they went looking for "Biblical" reasons to reject the treatment?
Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh, you are probably right. I likely said something like that - and don't forget the blood of someone whose sexual orientation was different. Well, anybody of "difference" - no contamination allowed.

Separate and elite - the chosen ones.

Unless, of course, that blood had been "offered on the altar" - altar blood. That blood could be used. And destroyed. By the high priests of the bloodless world. Made into fractions - taking the best and most valuable parts out. Just like in the old days. The best and most valuable reserved for the priestly class. Those who determine the law and tax the chosen ones. The blood priests. Blood tax.

Sterile blood. Processed blood. Destroyed blood. From the altar of those medical professionals who collect it, sell it, and profit from it. Given to those who desire to keep their blood pure and undefiled.