Posts by OrphanCrow

55

Knorr Family

by vienne in

for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.

we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

if you can add to this, please do..

OrphanCrow

vienne: That's interesting speculation, but I cannot use speculation

Exactly.

Vienne, please don't get me wrong about what I am about to say. I respect your work. People like you are invaluable. People like me appreciate the commitment and time that you devote to providing us with complete and accurate source material. Your work is vital.

Speculation is for people like me. That is why I challenged you when you dismissed and even denied that Nathan Knorr was related to the Knorr family in Germany. My job, as a reader and semi-serious academic myself, is to take the details you provide and build my own understanding of "who was Nathan Knorr".

The details you have provided - an unassuming and relatively unremarkable young man - adds to Knorr's psychological profile. Add to that the information that you have dismissed out of hand - that his family history was one of success and power (100 years in the food business is nothing to sneeze about...) and you have a possible reason why a young man like Nathan would actively seek out and eventually gain so much power. Something drove him - those who rise to the top are driven and he could very well have been driven by his apparent lack of success in comparison to his cousins in Germany.

Please continue to dig up the details - there are some of us who find even the tiniest, almost insignificant detail to actually have significance in some context. It takes time to build pictures.

Don't speculate. Quit interpreting - I can do that for myself.

And thank you for providing the information that you have.

55

Knorr Family

by vienne in

for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.

we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

if you can add to this, please do..

OrphanCrow

vienne: family is family?

Yes, family is family.

You yourself has demonstrated the influence that a family connection has on a person. You immediately brought up your distant family status from generations ago and presented that to your audience. Why? What does it matter who they were to us? Maybe on the off chance that we, your audience, would be influenced slightly after knowing that your family has "people who ruled most of Europe"? And the Rockefellers? Why even mention that if it had no effect on you? To effect others?

As Sparky has pointed out, that Knorr family connection was known to those around N Knorr. They knew he had that connection and it would have influenced them - it may not have influenced the way that Knorr thought and it may have had no monetary value to Nathan....but those around him would have been impressed and changed their treatment of him accordingly. Human behavior is like that (and you intuitively know this because you immediately revealed details of your personal family history).

You claim that there was no influence but I think that is a myopic way to view the Knorr family connection - it could very well have influenced how Knorr was treated by others. It could have given him social mobility.

I think that your response is premature. I don't understand how you can so quickly dismiss the possible significance of this connection when, a few posts ago, you declared (twice) that Nathan Knorr was no relation to the Knorrs in Germany. Further exploration of the possible influences this may have had on how Knorr was received in different circles should be forthcoming rather than dismissed because of your own limited personal experience.

I, too, have personal experience and I do know that a family connection that far back can and does influence people in small and subtle ways. Here is one example:

I have done a fair bit of historical and genealogical research into my ancestors, both maternal and paternal. Several years ago, I met a couple (through a mutual friend) that are from Austria. I mentioned to them that my mother's family can be traced back to a certain location in Austria. The man asked me the location and surname. When I told him, he burst into a great big smile, grabbed me and hugged me and said "Well then, we are related. You are family! Our home is open to you anytime - please come for a visit and I will introduce you to others in your family."

And that is what I meant when I said "Family is family". You may not have the same connection to your family identity that others do, Vienne. And you don't know if Nathan Knorr and his family maintained contact with their German cousins, you don't know what connection existed between them, other than you can say that Nathan's father didn't share in ownership of Knorr Foods. That is all you know and there could have been connections that you don't know about - connections that weren't financially based. It could have given Nathan Knorr the social mobility he needed in certain situations.

55

Knorr Family

by vienne in

for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.

we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

if you can add to this, please do..

OrphanCrow

A connection that distant is meaningless.

It may be a meaningless connection...but it is still there.

Nathan Knorr did have a family connection to the founder of Knorr Foods.

Family is family.

55

Knorr Family

by vienne in

for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.

we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

if you can add to this, please do..

OrphanCrow

vienne: I use them as a base for other things ... but still no relation to N. H. Knorr.

I think that if you go back far enough, you will find that the founder of Knorr Foods in Germany, Carl Heinrich Knorr, and Nathan Knorr had a common ancestor.

Johann Christian Knorr, born in Germany in 1746 and buried in Wernersville, Berks County, Pennsylvania, USA in 1836, was Carl Knorr's father. Johann was Nathan Knorr's great-great-great-grandfather. Nathan's great-great grandfather was a brother to the founder of Knorr Foods.

Nathan Knorr's family tree connects to the Knorr Food family.

25

Elders' new direction.

by lastmanstanding in

there's been a change.

a rather big one.

and the kevin bunkers of the world beware.. jw elders no longer need to "turn the other cheek".. in the governing bastard's desperation, they have given a new directive to elders.

OrphanCrow

The caption on that photo is interesting, Sparky.

Note how the newspaper describes the assembly: "anti-Catholic rally"

25

Elders' new direction.

by lastmanstanding in

there's been a change.

a rather big one.

and the kevin bunkers of the world beware.. jw elders no longer need to "turn the other cheek".. in the governing bastard's desperation, they have given a new directive to elders.

OrphanCrow

Sparky, I can't find the photo you speak about, either. But, the following link has an account of that photo being taken.

http://watchtower-stop.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-jehovahs-witnesses-is-against.html

C. H. Lyon tells us: “The attendants did their work well. A couple of the more obstreperous Coughlinites were rapped on the head with a cane, and all of them were unceremoniously hurled down the ramps and out of the auditorium. One of the Coughlinites rated some publicity in a daily tabloid the next morning, as they printed a picture of him with his head wrapped, as with a turban.”

And, an account of another photo - a police officer:

Mob violence also erupted during the 1942 assembly in Klamath Falls, Oregon. According to Don Milford, mobsters cut the telephone wires bringing a discourse from another convention city, but a brother having a copy of the talk immediately took over and the program went on. Finally, the mob broke into the hall. The Witnesses defended themselves and when the door was closed again, one attacker—“a large powerful man”—lay unconscious inside the building. He was a police officer and his picture was taken with his badge alongside his face. “We called the Red Cross,” says Brother Milford, “and they sent in two women with a stretcher and took him out. He was later heard to say, ‘I didn’t think they would fight.’” The police refused to aid the Witnesses, and it was over four hours before the mob was dispersed by the state militia.

25

Elders' new direction.

by lastmanstanding in

there's been a change.

a rather big one.

and the kevin bunkers of the world beware.. jw elders no longer need to "turn the other cheek".. in the governing bastard's desperation, they have given a new directive to elders.

OrphanCrow

Maybe the org will start issuing canes again.

They could package them up with every cart order.

102

The Biggest Issue Is Not Guns—It Is Mental Health!

by minimus in

jw
friends

crazy people shoot up places and kill people.

take away guns and they will find knives, poison, bombs , etc.. seriously, there are a lot of mentally unhealthy people!

they need professional long term help..

OrphanCrow

jhine: So why do people carry out these mass shootings ? What is the motivation ?

The human species is inherently violent. Always has been and always will be.

Our species has created a culture that is predominately violent.

23

How many Witnesses would drink the cool aid at a "Jonestown?"

by Witness 007 in

so my mum died from mild form of lukemia which can simply be treated with a blood transfusion each month.

to me this was a watchtower assisted suicide.

the liaison elder encouraged her to "stay strong" and said a prayer.

OrphanCrow

I think that the idea of a world wide "drink the kool aid Jonestown" scenario is unrealistic and irrational.

For one thing, the GB and all their true believer followers do not believe that they will die. They believe they are going to live forever and never die. They are going to survive the apocalypse. Drinking the kool aid is in direct opposition to this fundamental doctrine - "we will live forever! we will never die!"

However, the kool aid behavior has been acted out in isolated family groups, especially among those who have left or been disfellowshipped. There are several cases where the irrational fear of not surviving Armageddon has lead to mass killings within JW families, especially where one individual has seen the kool aid option as the last resort for their family's chance at eternal life.

The promise of eternal life has an evil counterpart - if you die before Armageddon, you get a second chance.

So, the ones who I think are the most in danger from this cult and who would drink the kool aid readily are those who are no longer inside that special golden circle but still believe that jehobah will kill them at Armageddon. They want their second chance. So they will drink and they will spike their loved ones drinks as well.

Many have already. Tragically.

102

The Biggest Issue Is Not Guns—It Is Mental Health!

by minimus in

jw
friends

crazy people shoot up places and kill people.

take away guns and they will find knives, poison, bombs , etc.. seriously, there are a lot of mentally unhealthy people!

they need professional long term help..

OrphanCrow

vidiot: I read somewhere that people who suffer from mental health problems are statistically more likely to be the victims of violent crime than the perpetrators

You have read correctly.

Incorrect reading/reporting of news items and listening to people chatter will lead to the myth building around mental health and violence. And that is why the myth of mental illness and violence is persistent

95% percent of violent crime is committed by people who are not mentally ill and only 5 percent of those who are mentally ill will be violent (often towards themselves rather than others).

News stories often wrongly link violence with mental illness

Checking Facts and Falsehoods About Gun Violence and Mental Illness

Mental illness and violence

Untangling Gun Violence from Mental Illness

Mass Shooting and the Myth of the Violent Mentally Ill

Dispelling the Myth of Violence and Mental Illness