i was rather surprised today as i explored some archaeological news for my macquarie asian history fb page, to be suddenly confronted with this heading in the israeli haaretz media site.. before herzl, there was pastor russell: a neglected chapter of zionism.
years before theodor herzl proposed creating a jewish state, charles taze russell was traveling the world holding jewish mass meetings, beginning in 1879, at which he urged jews to find a national home in eretz israel.
... and this quote from charlie's zion's watchtower (p. 329, 1892: .
"Jewish Hopes" by CT Russell
https://archive.org/details/JewishHopesByC.t.Russell/page/n1
Booklet published by the International Bible Students (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) in 1910 containing an epitome of the teaching of Charles Taze Russell on the restoration of Israel (Zionism). Russell was first president of the Watch Tower Society, now known as Jehovah's Witnesses. The booklet also contains the text of Russell's famous 1910 Hippodrome speech on Jewish Hopes.
i was rather surprised today as i explored some archaeological news for my macquarie asian history fb page, to be suddenly confronted with this heading in the israeli haaretz media site.. before herzl, there was pastor russell: a neglected chapter of zionism.
years before theodor herzl proposed creating a jewish state, charles taze russell was traveling the world holding jewish mass meetings, beginning in 1879, at which he urged jews to find a national home in eretz israel.
... and this quote from charlie's zion's watchtower (p. 329, 1892: .
I think that the change from a dual covenat theology to a replacement theology was one of the most significant doctrinal flip flops in the WT/org history.
By the time that 1933 rolled around, Rutherford's new and improved religion had changed from one of support for the Jews to one that required the Jews to convert to Joe's brand of religion.
Lots changed after the year that Rutherford published "Comfort for the Jews" but it didn't change fast enough for Rutherford to convince the ruler in Germany of that fact. The German WT had a deep schism in it - many Bible Students had left the WTS after Rutherford's fight with Conrad Binkele in 1925 and they still followed Russell's dual covenant doctrine and supported Zionism. The JW/ Bible Students were a fractured group, especially in Germany at the time that Hitler took power.
But back to Russell et al...a photo of Russell and cronies in Jerusalem in 1914. Waiting for the rapture, apparently...
for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.
we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
if you can add to this, please do..
Thanks, Rubadub. I was taking you seriously...but I have been known to miss things before.
I skimmed through that bunker series and I can't find brothers huddled together. Can you point me in the right direction? I rarely watch org propaganda...
for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.
we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
if you can add to this, please do..
Rubadub, when you say that Knorr soup was served at Bethel, in what years are you claiming that happened?
Or am I just missing the humor and it didn't really happen?
I do find it rather amusing...Knorr soup for Knorr minions
*gotta go and check out that bunker video now...you have me curious
for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.
we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
if you can add to this, please do..
That is quite the pedigree, isn't it, RubaDub?
Some things make a little bit more sense now. Nathan Knorr was not just some nobody backwoods boy who found favor with da Judge - he would have been viewed by all those Bible Students in Brooklyn as having potential.
The picture becomes somewhat clearer - I never could understand how Knorr climbed the ladder all the way to the top. When he joined the Tower, the boys in Brooklyn were interested in promoting all sorts of enterprise within their new publication - the Golden Age magazine. Have you ever read through that collection? One of the overarching themes of that magazine was "food". Food, food and more food - good health obtained through good food. That and quack science. Dehydrated foods were touted as new food for the millennium.
for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.
we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
if you can add to this, please do..
RubaDub: ...when soup was served to the Bethelites, he insisted on only serving Knorr soups.
Do you think that Nathan got the family discount for bulk buying?
Or is it more plausible that the WTS was receiving a charitable donation from Knorr's German cousins? That would be a win-win. Nathan was all about making money - he would save money by getting free soup and his cousins would get a nice tax break for their donation.
for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.
we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
if you can add to this, please do..
vienne: That's interesting speculation, but I cannot use speculation
Exactly.
Vienne, please don't get me wrong about what I am about to say. I respect your work. People like you are invaluable. People like me appreciate the commitment and time that you devote to providing us with complete and accurate source material. Your work is vital.
Speculation is for people like me. That is why I challenged you when you dismissed and even denied that Nathan Knorr was related to the Knorr family in Germany. My job, as a reader and semi-serious academic myself, is to take the details you provide and build my own understanding of "who was Nathan Knorr".
The details you have provided - an unassuming and relatively unremarkable young man - adds to Knorr's psychological profile. Add to that the information that you have dismissed out of hand - that his family history was one of success and power (100 years in the food business is nothing to sneeze about...) and you have a possible reason why a young man like Nathan would actively seek out and eventually gain so much power. Something drove him - those who rise to the top are driven and he could very well have been driven by his apparent lack of success in comparison to his cousins in Germany.
Please continue to dig up the details - there are some of us who find even the tiniest, almost insignificant detail to actually have significance in some context. It takes time to build pictures.
Don't speculate. Quit interpreting - I can do that for myself.
And thank you for providing the information that you have.
for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.
we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
if you can add to this, please do..
vienne: family is family?
Yes, family is family.
You yourself has demonstrated the influence that a family connection has on a person. You immediately brought up your distant family status from generations ago and presented that to your audience. Why? What does it matter who they were to us? Maybe on the off chance that we, your audience, would be influenced slightly after knowing that your family has "people who ruled most of Europe"? And the Rockefellers? Why even mention that if it had no effect on you? To effect others?
As Sparky has pointed out, that Knorr family connection was known to those around N Knorr. They knew he had that connection and it would have influenced them - it may not have influenced the way that Knorr thought and it may have had no monetary value to Nathan....but those around him would have been impressed and changed their treatment of him accordingly. Human behavior is like that (and you intuitively know this because you immediately revealed details of your personal family history).
You claim that there was no influence but I think that is a myopic way to view the Knorr family connection - it could very well have influenced how Knorr was treated by others. It could have given him social mobility.
I think that your response is premature. I don't understand how you can so quickly dismiss the possible significance of this connection when, a few posts ago, you declared (twice) that Nathan Knorr was no relation to the Knorrs in Germany. Further exploration of the possible influences this may have had on how Knorr was received in different circles should be forthcoming rather than dismissed because of your own limited personal experience.
I, too, have personal experience and I do know that a family connection that far back can and does influence people in small and subtle ways. Here is one example:
I have done a fair bit of historical and genealogical research into my ancestors, both maternal and paternal. Several years ago, I met a couple (through a mutual friend) that are from Austria. I mentioned to them that my mother's family can be traced back to a certain location in Austria. The man asked me the location and surname. When I told him, he burst into a great big smile, grabbed me and hugged me and said "Well then, we are related. You are family! Our home is open to you anytime - please come for a visit and I will introduce you to others in your family."
And that is what I meant when I said "Family is family". You may not have the same connection to your family identity that others do, Vienne. And you don't know if Nathan Knorr and his family maintained contact with their German cousins, you don't know what connection existed between them, other than you can say that Nathan's father didn't share in ownership of Knorr Foods. That is all you know and there could have been connections that you don't know about - connections that weren't financially based. It could have given Nathan Knorr the social mobility he needed in certain situations.
for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.
we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
if you can add to this, please do..
A connection that distant is meaningless.
It may be a meaningless connection...but it is still there.
Nathan Knorr did have a family connection to the founder of Knorr Foods.
Family is family.
for a secondary project, i need basic biography of n. h. knorr's parents and brother and sister.
we have some details, which i have posted on our history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
if you can add to this, please do..
vienne: I use them as a base for other things ... but still no relation to N. H. Knorr.
I think that if you go back far enough, you will find that the founder of Knorr Foods in Germany, Carl Heinrich Knorr, and Nathan Knorr had a common ancestor.
Johann Christian Knorr, born in Germany in 1746 and buried in Wernersville, Berks County, Pennsylvania, USA in 1836, was Carl Knorr's father. Johann was Nathan Knorr's great-great-great-grandfather. Nathan's great-great grandfather was a brother to the founder of Knorr Foods.
Nathan Knorr's family tree connects to the Knorr Food family.
