OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  16

  Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

  the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

  african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

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  OrphanCrow

  This book looks like it could be an interesting read:

  A Complicated War: The Harrowing of Mozambique (Perspectives on Southern Africa)

  A Complicated War combines frontline reporting, personal narrative, political analysis, and comparative scholarship to present a picture of a Mozambique harrowed by profound local conflicts—ethnic, religious, political and personal. Finnegan writes that South Africa's domination and destabilization are basic elements of Mozambique's plight, but he offers a subtle description and analysis that will allow us to see the post-apartheid region from a new, more realistic, if less comfortable, point of view.

  The book was published in 1992 and the author, William Finnegan, mentions an encounter with the Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi during his visit to Africa. I have not read the book yet, but this is the quote from Google books:

  ...As we neared Phalombe, we passed a big, extremely neat, canico village. "Jehovah's Witnesses," Tauzene said. The village was obviously new and looked unusually well built. The huts were large with separate cookiing huts, separate shower huts with L-shaped entrances, graneries, gardens full of greens, wells with fences around them and stairways down into them, latrines that were clearly well reinforced. "they are very industrious," Tauzene said.
  They are more than that. A veteran correspondent living in Zimbabwe once told me that the only thing that united nearly all African governments was their hatred and persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses. Frelimo had expelled thousands from the cities. Many of those Mozambican Witnesses had ended up fleeing from Remino into Malawi, where the persecution was actually worse. A large number of Malawian Witnesses had been reportedly killed in 1967 for refusing to pledge allegiance to the Banda governement and more than one thousand fled into Mozambique. The Witnesses living near Phalombe, I had heard, were Malawians who had fled to Mozambique and had recently come back - on the assumption that they would be safe from persecution if they lived near the big refugee camps that were getting all the international attention. If they actually had only recently returned to Malawi, they would have had to cross.....

  ...and that is where the next page is missing. I guess I will have to try to get the book.
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  16

  Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

  the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

  african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

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  OrphanCrow

  millie: OC: Did you happen to see the letter from a government authority to the UN concerning the persecution in Malawi already being over by the time JWs were writing letters about it back in 75?

  Yes, I have seen that letter. I have it someplace in my archives.

  The history of the WT movement in Africa is very interesting and it is rooted in African politics far more than most people realize.

  I have run across several scholarly research papers about issues pertaining to the WT movement in Africa, especially concerning literacy and politics.

  Because entire villages in certain areas of Africa are almost totally made up of Jehovah's Witnesses, they make for an interesting study of social and political behavior.

  Here is a paper that I particulary enjoyed (thank you to Oubilette for sending me the pdf!):

  Ways of reading as religious power in print globalization
  Authors
  THOMAS G. KIRSCH
  First published: August 2007
  Abstract
  In this article, I address issues of power with regard to religious print media distributed worldwide. I show that mission societies seek to ensure a homogenous interpretation of their publications by making them “obligatory passage points” for socioreligious advancement and standardizing literacy practices. Once successfully established, networks created through religious print media evolve as a twofold process in which the construction of power by media distributors and their audiences' seeking of empowerment form an integrated whole. In this trajectory, literacy practices bridge local and global realms by enabling extensive religious networking based on the shared use of print media.

  Kirsch's research focuses on the local population in the Gwembe Valley in Zambia. He compares and contrasts the JW community with the Apostolic community practice.

  Oops...I got a little off topic there. It is difficult to speak about the WTS in Africa without getting sidetracked - there is so much WTS history and political influence there. The "mining of the wealth (in souls, religiously speaking) by the Org of Africa" has been going on for a long, long time.
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  16

  Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

  the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

  african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

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  OrphanCrow

  SSS: Zim is a spectacularly beautiful country in dire need of foreign investment but thanks to Madman Mugabe, that likely won't happen for some time.

  Yes, it is a beautiful country. About 15 years ago, I had a family member who owned land just outside Harare and she was always trying to get me to visit. She sent me photos of her home and the beauty of her farm was incredible. Except for the six foot black mamba they found in their house one day!

  I never wanted to visit - at the time, and since, the political upheaval and human atrocities being committed in that country were so disturbing. However, my step mother-in-law would visit there. She returned once from a visit and told us how she had met Mugabe and shook his hand. She said, "He was such a nice man."

  Wow. My mouth hit the floor when she dropped that bomb. How could she even not know what was happening in that country?? Mind you, it might have had something to do with what her daughter was doing for the government as a commodity trader in maize at the time.

  I find the WTS involvement in Zimbawe to be very interesting. Their handshaking with Mugabe would result in the very same reaction - "Oh, he is such a very nice man!".

  Yeah...well...as the crows would say - birds of a feather...
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  16

  Jehovah's Witnesses and Religious Tourism in Africa

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  about a month ago, i had started a thread about a video the wts had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for zimbabwe.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq.

  the video in that thread is no longer online.. the following article highlights the relgious tourism that the jehovah's witnesses have brought to africa.. african govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: mzembi.

  african governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, tourism minister walter mzembi has said.mzembi, who is also united nations world tourism organisation (unwto) chairman of the commission for africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that zimbabwes projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.. he advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that jehovahs witnesses who thronged zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.. jehovahs witnesses held their international convention in harare.

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  OrphanCrow

  About a month ago, I had started a thread about a video the WTS had released of an interview with the minister of tourism for Zimbabwe.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/430330002/interview-zimbabwes-minister-tourism-jw-hq
  

  The video in that thread is no longer online.

  The following article highlights the relgious tourism that the Jehovah's Witnesses have brought to Africa.

  African govts must prioritise tourism for economic growth: Mzembi

  African governments must prioritise tourism development to stimulate economic growth and development on the continent, Tourism minister Walter Mzembi has said.
  
  Mzembi, who is also United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) chairman of the Commission for Africa, said tourism had long-term intangible benefits that came with enhancing destinations amid reports that Zimbabwe’s projected 5,1% tourism growth for 2015/16 was ahead of all other economic sectors.

  
  He advocated for the scaling up of religious tourism, telling the audience that Jehovah’s Witnesses who thronged Zimbabwe for their first international convention in the country had set a fine example which should be followed by all church organisations.

  
  “Jehovah’s Witnesses held their international convention in Harare. In fact, this organisation set a fine example of how church organisations should behave, peaceable, orderly, in such a manner that gave a fine ministry of their God, while boosting the country’s tourism receipts,” he said.
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  52

  After Death Communications in the JW community

  by jack2312 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my name is jack and i'm looking for after death communications from the jehovah witness community.

  an after death communication (or adc) is when a loved one sends a kind of message to this side of life after their death.

  it can be a dream or smell (like perfume or roses that would be attached to them in memory) or a feeling of their presence.

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  OrphanCrow

  Jack: Crow and Lost
  The way I see it, although I understand your position/view, if it happens in front of you and shakes your world to the core....then maybe there's room for another interpretation.

  I wasn't explaining "my" position, Jack. I was explaining the JW cult doctrine. Period.

  And, if "it" happens in front of a practising (or not) JW...it will not open up another interpretation other than demon activity. There is no wiggle room in the JW cult. There is no "maybe".
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  52

  After Death Communications in the JW community

  by jack2312 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my name is jack and i'm looking for after death communications from the jehovah witness community.

  an after death communication (or adc) is when a loved one sends a kind of message to this side of life after their death.

  it can be a dream or smell (like perfume or roses that would be attached to them in memory) or a feeling of their presence.

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  OrphanCrow

  Jack, I think that this forum may not be the place to encounter people who have had experiences with "the other side". You are in a community of people who have had indoctrination that negates those kind of experiences that you describe.

  In the JW cult, "other side" experiences/communications are viewed as "communication from demons" or "demon activity".

  If somebody who is either still a JW, or is an exJW who has not deprogrammed, has an unexplained experience, the first thing they will do is pray to Jehovah to protect them from Satan.

  JWs believe that when a person dies, they have no agency - they are "sleeping".

  *Lostgeneration...I posted at the same time!
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  10

  Trolley Cart effectiveness

  by freddo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone here who goes to meetings know of anyone who comes to their meetings after being contacted on the trolleys?

  anyone hear of a real bible study from these carts?.

  exaggerations from the assembly platform or jw urban myths do not count!.

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  OrphanCrow

  The trolley carts might not be effective for actually making converts. But, the trolley witnessing is effective in conforming to laws in countries where "preaching" is restricted.

  In Russia, it was the trolley witnessing that got JWs acquitted in court.

  http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2100
  

  By contrast, at least two of the eight Jehovah's Witnesses stopped by police as they offered religious literature to passers-by on the streets of Simferopol on 2 July were acquitted in court, according to court records.
  Police stopped the Jehovah's Witnesses as they were offering religious literature from mobile stands, according to court decisions seen by Forum 18. Officers claimed they were violating Russia's June 2004 Demonstrations Law. They drew up records of an offence under Administrative Code Article 20.2, Part 1. The cases were then passed to court.
  At separate hearings on 30 July in front of Judge Aleksei Tikhopoi at Simferopol's Kiev District Court, both O. Shchelokova and E. Lyskova insisted that their right to offer religious literature is protected by the Russian Constitution and the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms.
  Shchelokova's lawyer told the Judge in her case that "during the religious activity, no slogans or calls of any kind were made, no agitation, propaganda or imposition of any religious views or ideas was conducted, banned religious literature was not distributed, no financial collections to support a religious organisation were undertaken, and no loudspeakers were used. The activity of her client did not form a danger to those around, and did not create a real threat of harm to the object being protected."
  In choosing to acquit Shchelokova and Lyskova of any wrongdoing, Judge Tikhopoi specifically acknowledged individuals' right to freedom of religion or belief laid out in Article 9 of the European Convention.

  Effective? Yes. In certain countries, trolleys are the only effective way that the WTS can establish a presence.
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  41

  When you read this Richard Glossip will probably be dead.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how do i feel about this?.

  too much doubt.. shame on you people who are responsible for putting richard to death.. richard is scheduled to be put to death in oklahoma at 3pm on september 16th by lethal injection.

  i have followed this case and feel like so many people very bad about this.

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  OrphanCrow

  Sahs: “OrphanCrow”: “The FACT is innocent people are put to death,”

  Sigh. Here we go again. I did not say that. Please...check the quote and reference the correct poster.

  No, Dr. Phil chose to highlight this case because it is compelling as an important sociological, legal justice, and human rights/fairness issue which potentially impacts all of us.

  Reading this article may give you another perspective on the case:

  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/richard-glossip-case-here-s-the-story-of-his-victim/article_1247f4c4-a8be-5492-b438-1c5d39c8b571.html

  From that article:

  “The issue is whether a man who has been given every opportunity provided by our legal system should be given another 60 days to do what his attorneys could not do in nearly two decades. … Talk shows, Hollywood, and petition campaigns should not be allowed to undermine the authority given by our Constitution to our courts.”
  
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  41

  When you read this Richard Glossip will probably be dead.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how do i feel about this?.

  too much doubt.. shame on you people who are responsible for putting richard to death.. richard is scheduled to be put to death in oklahoma at 3pm on september 16th by lethal injection.

  i have followed this case and feel like so many people very bad about this.

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  OrphanCrow

  Geez, let's feel sorry for a convicted killer's mental state.

  Would it not be benefical to have empathy for the family of the victim instead?

  Full statement from Barry Van Treese family

  
  Over these many years our family has endured all manner of pain as a result of the death of Barry. The Van Treese family knows with absolute certainty the State of Oklahoma has provided the opportunity for justice to be served in this case. The death penalty in Oklahoma is reserved for the most heinous crimes. Two juries who heard all of the testimony agreed this case warranted the death penalty for Richard Glossip. Numerous courts have reviewed the facts of this case and have determined Richard Glossip's case warrants the death penalty. To ensure Richard Glossip received a fair judgement, he was given a second trial where he was represented by a legal team with decades of experience. The facts and testimony of the case have been proven in two trials and reviewed by every possible court all the way to include the US Supreme Court. And, finally, as the law provides in these types of cases, the Pardon and Parole board extensively reviewed the case, talked with and questioned Glossip, and voted unanimously against clemency.
  Execution of Richard Glossip will not bring Barry back or lessen the empty hole left in the lives of those who loved Barry. What it does provide is a sense that justice has been served.
  We have a right as a family and as citizens of the United States of America to expect justice to be served. Would not you feel the same if this was your loved one?

  It seems to me that if a murder conviction is upheld, not just in one trial, but two, and then also in the Supreme Court, that this question is a bit redundant:

  How can Richard be put to death, based on the testimony of the man who admitted doing the killing?

  The FACT is innocent people are put to death, and I don't care if millions are happy with that justice. I am not. And I am not the only one. This is why Dr Phil opened his new season a week early to highlight this case.

  The FACT is that Dr. Phil opened his new season to highlight this case because Dr. Phil is a televi$ion $how that makes LOTS of money on $en$ationali$m.

  Dr. Phil $ell$ $tories like this because there will always be people who will line up to buy them.
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  41

  When you read this Richard Glossip will probably be dead.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how do i feel about this?.

  too much doubt.. shame on you people who are responsible for putting richard to death.. richard is scheduled to be put to death in oklahoma at 3pm on september 16th by lethal injection.

  i have followed this case and feel like so many people very bad about this.

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  OrphanCrow

  TheRebel: That's twice now Richard has been hours from that lethal injection. Surely that is enough to break mentally even the strongest of us.

  Being close to death is something that happens - and to lots of people besides someone found guilty of having somebody killed.

  Pffft. Mentally break even the strongest of us? Gimme a break...LOTS of people face death without breaking mentally. And lots of innocent people die every day through no fault of their own.