just wondered what bethel in ny looks like from the inside.
i would like to get a real sense of what the corridors of bethel looks like now or in the past.
i have seen the odd pic here or there, but would like to see more.
I realize that this isn't NY Bethel...but I have a photo taken somewhere in the interior of Toronto Bethel. (?...did they call the Canadian Branch that?)
It looks like a classroom. The year is around 1965. Kingdom Ministry School, I think...something like that. My dad attended.
i wanna make a poll here.
how many years do you think the jdub cult will exist as is and what will happen to it?.
i say the growth stops this year and starts to decline.
finklestein: Note the similarities to this cult and the JWS...
Examining the Children of God is like looking at a microcosm of the WTS. The cultic pattern of dissolution, restructuring, and transformation is very evident in the Children of God/Family of Love/Family/Family International and it provides a template for understanding the morphing and shifting that occurs in a larger cult like the JWs.
The Family International was founded by Grant to sidestep and hide the Children of God past. In that, he has been rather successful. So successful that most people don't even know that Grant is the one who founded the Family International.
I see much the same thing happening with the WTS - the Jehovah's Witnesses will fade into obscurity and become known as "that cult that had child abuse problems". And, as the Children of God morphed into Family International, so too will the Jehovah's Witnesses become JW..org. A safe, santitized version of a model that was no longer financially viable.
a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.
world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.
so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?
bohm: It is true correlation does not imply causation but it's usually indicative of it.
Correlation allows someone to examine all things that could create that correlation.
For example, in the above analysis of the rape statistics in Sweden, many factors could contribute to the increase in rape statistics.
1. Sweden reports rape data and other countries don't
2. Sweden has broadened the definition of what constitues rape
3. Sweden police have improved their policing methods which accounts in an increase in reporting
i wanna make a poll here.
how many years do you think the jdub cult will exist as is and what will happen to it?.
i say the growth stops this year and starts to decline.
done4good: Children of God - Was that not the cult that original Fleetwood Mac guitarist Jeremy Spencer joined?
Yes. The Children of God was a California cult that came up against the State law back in the 70s. The ramifications of those legal battles are still felt today in legal cases such as Candace Conti in California.
The Children of God went through transformations in response to legal pressure - Berg (main leader) dissolved the Children of God and remade the cult with a new name: "The Family of Love" aka "The Family".
The Family International eventually, in 2004, was established by one of the leaders of the original Children of God, Grant Montgomery, and operates to this day. Jeremy Spencer is actively involved in the Family International.
a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.
world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.
so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?
tragical: The point I am making is that there is a direct correlation ...
Correlation does not prove causation.
Using correlated results to make conclusive statements is a dangerous practice that misuses the purposes of statistical study.
i wanna make a poll here.
how many years do you think the jdub cult will exist as is and what will happen to it?.
i say the growth stops this year and starts to decline.
vidiot: I don't know about "ceasing to exist", but child abuse scandals brought the Hare Krishna sect to its knees.
It's technically still around, but it's a pale shadow of its former self.
Child abuse scandal also brought the Children of God to its knees. However....good ol' Grant rallied the troops and created The Family International. The leopard changed its spots. But it is still there.
A pale shadow is still a shadow. And you never know what that shadow conceals when it comes to cults and money.
i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.
through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.
fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.
slimboyfat: and a brother called John something who resigned the Ireland branch in the fallout of Franz's departure too.
That would be John May and Martin Merriman.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/23073/dublin-ireland-apostasy-1970s?page=1
i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.
through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.
fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.
slimfatboy: Fascinating, thanks, I'd never heard of Binkele!
I was thinking there must be some good non-American examples - I just don't know about them.
Funny thing is, though, Binkele was an American born German. It is interesting that his group of German Free Bible Students, who were never associated with the WTS, wore the purple triangles in the German WW2 camps. And Binkele's Free Bible Students would now be counted by the WTS as "JWs". The WTS now claims all purple triangles as their own.
i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.
through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.
fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.
slimfatboy: There was a break away group in Australia and Hungary and another in Nigeria wasn't there? I don't know the names of the movers and shakers.
Yes, you are right.
If you want to research something pretty interesting concerning breakaways and dissenters, etc, then just goggle "Watchtower movement in Africa". Try it with a space as well: Watch Tower Movement. The WT breakaways in African countries have had a political impact historically, with the WTS in NY finally making deals with some of the African governments to bring the WT 'sects' in Africa under control of the Society in order to stabilize some areas.
i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.
through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.
fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.
Two dissenters that were key in my personal journey of 'deprogramming' were Gary and Heather Botting, exJWs and the authors of The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. The book was published in 1984.
http://www.amazon.ca/The-Orwellian-World-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802065457
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Botting
Gary Norman Arthur Botting (born 19 July 1943)[1] is a Canadian legal scholar and criminal defense lawyer as well as a poet, playwright and critic of literature and religion, in particular Jehovah's Witnesses. The author of more than 30 books, he is one of the country's leading authorities on extradition law.[2] He is said to have had "more experience in battling the extradition system than any other Canadian lawyer."[3][4]
Gary and Heather are now divorced and Heather has remarried.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Botting
Heather Denise Botting, née Harden, born 21 September 1948, is a professor of anthropology at the University of Victoria in British Columbia. The original high priestess of Coven Celeste, she is a founding elder of the Canadian Aquarian Tabernacle Church[1] and was the first recognized Wiccan chaplain in a public university.[2]
