OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  20

  CLIENT INTAKE - CSA QUESTIONNAIRE & General legal advice and direction

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  client intake—csa questionnaire.

  general legal advice and direction.

  hi wifi.. i don't believe these have been seen before.. one is a general guideline given to elders who report a child safety issue in the congregation, and the second is the form they have to return to the legal department.. they are both recent forms.. the questionnaire has an interesting question at a.6 stating if the legal dept has advised to contact the authorities yes or no.

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  OrphanCrow

  tdtt: On bullet #4 on the ADVICE document - I am sure thats for the protection of the confidentiality of the Victim.
  Yea right.

  You will note that they didn't define "victim". The way that the WT behaves, they define "victim" as the one accused of the crime

  And, they also view the elders as victims. After all, it is the elders that get instructions to lawyer up, not the one who has come forward with the accusation

  *to add - this form defines the elders as the clients of the WT lawyers. The victim, the one whom the crime was perpetuated on, has no legal representation. But the elders do. They are the clients
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  13

  Here's another one

  by stillin in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this guy was an elder.

  i'm sorry if somebody already posted this.. http://abc7.com/news/former-oc-teacher-charged-w--sexually-assaulting-teen-boy/1458295/.

  anybody know him?.

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  OrphanCrow

  datadog: The Authorites were alerted FIRST! That's how shit gets done! There's no need to call WT Legal.

  I don't think the authorities were alerted first. From the article that Robo posted:

  Between June 12, 2007, and June 11, 2008, Gorski is accused of sexually assaulting 13-year-old John Doe at various locations in Buena Park.
  In 2009, John Doe reported the abuse to their congregation. Gorski was removed from his position as an elder, but remained an active member of the congregation. In 2010, Gorski moved to South Carolina and began attending a Jehovah’s Witness congregation in nearby Charlotte, North Carolina.
  John Doe recently reported the sexual abuse to authorities, and on June 21, 2016, Gorski was arrested by the Buena Park Police Department.

  datadog:
  That's how shit gets done!

  Yeah...well, shit would have got done a lot faster if the WT legal dept had advised their clients (the elders) to report the crimes back in 2009 when they were made aware of it
  
  
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  38

  Trolley cart "witnessing" is getting ridiculous

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i really fail to see how much actual "witnessing" is occurring with the trolley carts.publishers, usually pioneers, just stand or sit there not engaging anyone and count their time.. the only thing i notice that it's accomplishing is brand exposure for jw.0rg so the public is exposed to the logo and literature/poster card headlines.. take for example this "evening" witnessing by a pioneer elder while on summer holiday/vacation.. .

  is this not a wth kinda moment when you consider the years of slaving, knocking on doors, business territory and bible studies we had to keep performing so we weren't branded a "weak" publisher?.

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  OrphanCrow

  2+2=5: Why don't they just tattoo the JW.Org logo on their bloody foreheads

  And their right hands

  
  
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  20

  CLIENT INTAKE - CSA QUESTIONNAIRE & General legal advice and direction

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  client intake—csa questionnaire.

  general legal advice and direction.

  hi wifi.. i don't believe these have been seen before.. one is a general guideline given to elders who report a child safety issue in the congregation, and the second is the form they have to return to the legal department.. they are both recent forms.. the questionnaire has an interesting question at a.6 stating if the legal dept has advised to contact the authorities yes or no.

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  OrphanCrow

  freddo: Can anyone get it off to the ARC and the UK enquiry?

  I sent the documents to the ARC

  
  
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  20

  CLIENT INTAKE - CSA QUESTIONNAIRE & General legal advice and direction

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  client intake—csa questionnaire.

  general legal advice and direction.

  hi wifi.. i don't believe these have been seen before.. one is a general guideline given to elders who report a child safety issue in the congregation, and the second is the form they have to return to the legal department.. they are both recent forms.. the questionnaire has an interesting question at a.6 stating if the legal dept has advised to contact the authorities yes or no.

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  OrphanCrow

  slidinfast: It is as strong an indication as i have seen that the records they claim do not exist are indeed kept.

  Of course they do.

  And they keep it all locked up tight inside of lawyers' files.

  Want to know where the 'list' is? Inside the WT's legal team's offices. Nice and safe. The 'list' is called 'client files'. And the clients are the congregation elders and the 'organisation' of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Cool trick
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  20

  CLIENT INTAKE - CSA QUESTIONNAIRE & General legal advice and direction

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  client intake—csa questionnaire.

  general legal advice and direction.

  hi wifi.. i don't believe these have been seen before.. one is a general guideline given to elders who report a child safety issue in the congregation, and the second is the form they have to return to the legal department.. they are both recent forms.. the questionnaire has an interesting question at a.6 stating if the legal dept has advised to contact the authorities yes or no.

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  OrphanCrow

  freddo: CSA = Child Sexual Abuse?

  That makes sense

  
  

  The client intake document is headed by this:

  The information requested below will enable Watch Tower Legal Department (the “Legal Department”) to provide legal advice to the congregation and others who share a common interest with the congregation. The information will also enable the Legal Department to jointly defend the congregation elders, and the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses, should litigation arise.

  So that means that filling in this form and submitting it puts the entire congregation, including the victim(s) and the accused, in a client-lawyer relationship with the WT legal team. But especially so, the elders.

  How does that work? Are the parties involved (victims, accused, witnesses, et al) given notice that they now have entered into this client relationship with WT lawyers? Are the victims aware that the WT lawyers will control all the information that is given to the elders? Do all parties concerned know that the elders (and everybody else who is part of the JW congregation) now have legal representation concerning the matter that will be addressed?

  
  
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  20

  CLIENT INTAKE - CSA QUESTIONNAIRE & General legal advice and direction

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  client intake—csa questionnaire.

  general legal advice and direction.

  hi wifi.. i don't believe these have been seen before.. one is a general guideline given to elders who report a child safety issue in the congregation, and the second is the form they have to return to the legal department.. they are both recent forms.. the questionnaire has an interesting question at a.6 stating if the legal dept has advised to contact the authorities yes or no.

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  OrphanCrow

  Yeah. Now I get it. The call to the Legal Department.

  That is instruction to the elders to "lawyer up". Immediately. Before they take a piss or fart or sneeze. Lawyer up. Protect the confidentiality of the information they are about to deal with.

  These forms are to re-define the relationship between the WTS and the elders. The elders become clients of the WT legal team

  And then the elders, who are now clients with legal representation, go off and conduct a kangaroo court where the victim has no representation, no prior knowledge of what is really happening. And neither does the accused. No representation. Nobody speaking for either party. But the elders have lawyers.

  And everything that the victim, the accused, witnesses, et al, says goes into making a judicial decision that is now part of the elders' "confidential" information that they share with their lawyers, the WT legal team.

  Yeah...the need to phone the legal team first before making any move has a primary purpose - to establish a client-lawyer relationship between the elders and the WTS. Protect information. Control information.
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  20

  CLIENT INTAKE - CSA QUESTIONNAIRE & General legal advice and direction

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  client intake—csa questionnaire.

  general legal advice and direction.

  hi wifi.. i don't believe these have been seen before.. one is a general guideline given to elders who report a child safety issue in the congregation, and the second is the form they have to return to the legal department.. they are both recent forms.. the questionnaire has an interesting question at a.6 stating if the legal dept has advised to contact the authorities yes or no.

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  OrphanCrow

  Okay...reading the forms some more and I have questions...

  1.) what do the letters CSA stand for?

  2.) why is this a "client intake" form? Who is the "client"? The elders? (is this how they are trying to keep the info secret?)

  3.) about the second document...the general legal guidelines...

  - is there a textbook that we do not have access to? Is there a "Shepherd the Flock of God" textbook that is used to train the elders? The document makes reference to "chapter 5, paragraph 39" in regard to questioning minors

  And, not a question but an observation.

  #4 in the legal guideline document...notes are no longer to be taken. That is a big change. In testimony at the ARC (can't remember which WT goofus it was that said this), it was revealed that when a minor was to be questioned, one elder was to do the questioning while another one watched and took notes.
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  20

  CLIENT INTAKE - CSA QUESTIONNAIRE & General legal advice and direction

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  client intake—csa questionnaire.

  general legal advice and direction.

  hi wifi.. i don't believe these have been seen before.. one is a general guideline given to elders who report a child safety issue in the congregation, and the second is the form they have to return to the legal department.. they are both recent forms.. the questionnaire has an interesting question at a.6 stating if the legal dept has advised to contact the authorities yes or no.

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  OrphanCrow

  Well...that blows their stand on "clergy confidentiality" right out of the water

  *to add...it makes me physically ill to read all the intrusive questions that are part of the WTS' investigative approach. What gives a religion the right to ask victims these personal questions? Why are they allowed to keep this data on file? Why are they allowed to detail child sex abuse crimes and keep records on the minor children involved and on the nature of the crimes committed against them???
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  38

  Trolley cart "witnessing" is getting ridiculous

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i really fail to see how much actual "witnessing" is occurring with the trolley carts.publishers, usually pioneers, just stand or sit there not engaging anyone and count their time.. the only thing i notice that it's accomplishing is brand exposure for jw.0rg so the public is exposed to the logo and literature/poster card headlines.. take for example this "evening" witnessing by a pioneer elder while on summer holiday/vacation.. .

  is this not a wth kinda moment when you consider the years of slaving, knocking on doors, business territory and bible studies we had to keep performing so we weren't branded a "weak" publisher?.

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  OrphanCrow

  startrekangel: Another clever way to increase the number of preaching hours while walking away from the publishing business, which costs money and brings in nothing. Witness evolution from a publishing house to a real state corporation.

  ...to a non profit corporation

  A volunteer labor force is a critical component to maintaining non profit status

  The trolleys accomplish two things - advertising and a tax free status