Posts by OrphanCrow

41

How many JWs actually died in Nazi camps

by dogon in

the jws have tried to pad the number of jws in camps.

how many actually went and how many died?

can you site the source also?

OrphanCrow

Londo: Adding: upon reading the link, I just realized is a website to deny that the Nazi Holocaust happened! Egad!

Yes...Felderer was a witness for the defense in the 1988 trial of Ernest Zundel in Canada

http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/falsenews.toc.html

108

BIG NEWS! Leader of German Watchtower History Archives Resignes and Leaves Branch Office!

by GermanXJW in

johannes wrobel, the founder of the watchtower history archives in germany, responsible for the stand firm-video and the stand-firm-exhibitions resigned in november 2008 and left the german branch office.

he was also the responsible person for many of the wt sponsored websites on jw in the 'third reich'!.

there are no further details known yet but this could be big news!.

OrphanCrow

An update on Johannes Wrobel.

This page is in German and it badly (very badly) translates to English.

http://johanneswrobel.de/

Wrobel has finally broke his silence and published an autobiography detailing his life, and his involvement with the WTS. I am unable to pick up on the details of what he is saying, but I think the general gist of it is that he resigned over the difficulty in pursuing authentic research when it was being controlled by the WT. I think...

The world in "Bethel" was no longer mine. Familiar people were now dead for reasons of age or illness, such as Alice Berner Cilli Sauer, Auguste Bender, Inge Dengler, Erika Kohler August Peters, Wolfgang Krolop, Egon Peter, Edmund Anstadt, Hermann Reuter, Wilhelm Einschütz and Willi and Editha Pohl. Finally died relatively young Bernd Schinkmann and also too early a fellow elder from the local congregation Selters / Taunus, of which I was (maybe had their death somehow have been prevented, but that's just my assumption or would have been my wish).
Some people, could have an influence on my work or my life in "Bethel", were in my view closely and some "small-minded" (which will certainly see each in its own way). You have to constantly change for the "Bethel", not vice versa - this motto was me always clear, but now a new time and the time for a bold consistent change was for me personally come, and again regardless of my age and the material consequences!
My curiosity had been satisfied, completed the analysis of past history quasi, achieved a life's work. I had the service paid much life I've never regretted, even then benefited. Now I no longer held back at this quite beautiful place, no relatives (which I currently do not want to go further in order not to violate the privacy of "Bethel" 'employees).
On November 23, 2008 (I took still writing holiday to 30 November) I finish for private reasons voluntarily and formally (in writing) my full-time, gratuitous (really, this is not about making money, but was completely separate them, just in worship) service relationship with the Watchtower or my religious activity in " Jehovah's Witnesses " in Selters / Taunus to 36 years of service. (At the same time, and hence, of course, the object of my line of "historical archive" of Jehovah's Witnesses.)
The lack of pension contributions for the period of my religious affiliation paid the religious community in the German pension fund, a subsequently. (Nationals who remain are, lifelong care as long as they do not like me to give up the religious affiliation.)
A second personal turning point in life similar to 1970 / 1972 , only in reverse, which I as mentioned in all shape and performed in writing, I am not speak "runaway convent school". I meet for good and acceptable for me decision to the I am. I'm so free.
But I look with gratitude and satisfaction to the interesting life and learning time in Wiesbaden and seltzer / Taunus back (1972 - 2008), to the many children to meet people and places on the historical and memorial work and the numerous publications as well as the many business trips at home and abroad (1996 - 2008). And thank the Community for the funding of numerous historical projects to preserve the memory of the victims of persecution under the brown and the red dictatorship.

It appears as though Wrobel not only resigned from his position at the German Bethel in 2008, but he also resigned as a Jehovah's Witness. I think. Anyone with German fluency that can offer a better translation?

17

How are you with your temper?

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

let's be honest everyone has their limits, their breaking point.

personally i try to remain placid when provoked, but on occasion i can loose it.

the last time i lost it was when chelsea came to watford and some chelsea supporters had some how got tickets and were sitting in the home end.

OrphanCrow

Tantalon: ...I'll control my temper when everyone else controls there stupid!

psssst...know the difference between "there" and "their"

aaarrrggghhhh!

30

Do you remember this WT calendar art?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

these are of early '70s vintage, i recall.

my job was to sort through thousands of these and be sure they were not "off register.".

.

OrphanCrow

smiddy: ...I could be wrong but I don`t ever remember children being baptised as happens today , and certainly not depicted in that art work.

I don't think you are wrong. In the 60s, it was not usual to see children baptized.

My parents had a rule that us kids couldn't get baptized until we were at least 16. (thank goodness...I left when I was 13/14)

Child baptism was not considered a "thing" in the post-war years. My mother had been part of the pre-war scoop that saw very young children get baptized in anticipation of the 'armageddon' that the war was going to usher in. She had been six years old when she got dunked by the "Society men" that had been sent out into rural Canada to save all those children. She said that the Society, after the war, offered all those children an opportunity to be re-baptized, if they felt they needed to be, as adults. My mom didn't bother...she said "Of course I agreed to be baptized at 6 years of age - I wanted to make my parents happy...I had no idea what it really meant."

Child baptism was a huge part of the pre-war years that saw events such as the "Children of the King" assemblies and the release of the book "Children" in 1941. The WTS needed the children to help fight the pledge of allegiance legal issue that they were facing.

41

How many JWs actually died in Nazi camps

by dogon in

the jws have tried to pad the number of jws in camps.

how many actually went and how many died?

can you site the source also?

OrphanCrow

sfb: Some of the JWs who signed the declaration did so as a form of "theocratic warfare". And that others did so as a result of pressure... is hardly surprising given the circumstances.

(from the first link I posted)

...the form letter that BS/Jws were usually required to sign to be released was a pledge to give up the doctrines of the Watchtower and to not engage in the proselytizing work. Contrary to what most Jws today will tell you, these letters were signed by the BS/Jws in Germany that were arrested - about 50 percent of those sent to prison signed the letters before they were released and only about 10 percent signed them once they reached the camps. As John-Stucke points out in her essay*, it was not advantageous to the BS/Jw prisoners to sign the letters once they reached the camps because it was in effect, potentially signing their own death warrants. The men who signed would be sent to the front to fight and rarely returned. Staying in the camps was the safest and best way for the Bible Students and JWs to survive the war. Especially when they got assignments that placed them in places of privilege that fed and clothed and sheltered them - they ate while many in the rest of Europe and Britain starved.
The myth that the BS/Jws didn't sign the papers because of God-loyalty is rather misguided - the lack of signing was not always a resistance/martyr move - it was a 'save my ass' move. Yes...many got badly treated because of not signing the papers...but many also took advantage of not serving at the front.

41

How many JWs actually died in Nazi camps

by dogon in

the jws have tried to pad the number of jws in camps.

how many actually went and how many died?

can you site the source also?

OrphanCrow

Giorando: (The non-German Jehovah's Witnesses suffered a considerably higher percentage of deaths than their German co-religionists.)...

Exactly. What the numbers reported don't reveal is the huge split that was apparent in the German WT at the time.

There had been a division in 1925 that saw many of the Bible Students in Germany leave the WT and follow Conrad Binkele's Bible Students. These Bible Students (the Earnest Bible Students), that were loyal to Russell's teaching, still followed the dual covenant theology that Russell espoused and they rejected Rutherford's replacement theology.

There are accounts of the JWs, in the employ of SS officers, who spoke out against the Jews...exactly like Rutherford did. And then....those poor Bible Students (who got lumped into the "official" JW numbers after the war), that supported the Jewish homeland, were the ones who got the worst treatment. The JWs who followed the Rutherford replacement theology got the best, and the privileged, treatment by the SS.

41

How many JWs actually died in Nazi camps

by dogon in

the jws have tried to pad the number of jws in camps.

how many actually went and how many died?

can you site the source also?

OrphanCrow

sfb: Wikipedia has the correct numbers from Detlef Garbe the leading expert on this topic. There were 20,000 JWs in Nazi Germany, 10,000 were imprisoned, 2000 of them in concentration camps, and around 1200 died in custody including 250 who were executed.

What those numbers don't reveal is that half of the JWs/BibleStudents that were arrested did sign the declaration to be released.

What you won't find in those numbers is the number of JWs who held positions of privilege during the war with SS members and their families. You won't find the accounts of the JWs who sat out the war in a posh camp as caretakers of Himmler's castle. You won't find the accounts of how JWs were released, by Heinrich Himmler the leader of the SS, on a handshake and considered partially free by war's end.

A Castle, Estates and Berry Picking: Personal Servants and Positions of Privilege

and you won't find the account of how Himmler had made an order in 1944 to relocate JWs to conquered territories:

In July 1944, Himmler ordered Ernst Kaltenbrunner, the head of the RSHA, to begin the exporting of the faith of the Jehovah's Witnesses to the occupied east.[39] Himmler considered the Jehovah's Witnesses of being frugal, hard-working, honest and fanatic in their pacifism, and that these traits were extremely desirable for the suppressed nations in the east

I understand the position of not denigrating the JWs and Bible Students who did suffer during WW2...but I also think it is important to set the record straight about what really went on with the JWs and the Nazis by the time the war was over.

22

Howto: get access to scientific papers

by Anders Andersen in

since most people are not aware on how to get (free*) access to scientific papers and journals, so here's a short list of resources.. search http://scholar.google.com for the paper.

maybe you'll get lucky and find it somewhere for free.. if you can only find a paid for version of the paper, get the title, doi (sort of like an isbn number) and link to the download page of the paper on the paysite.. if you don't know the doi, find it by searching your paper's title on http://crossref.org.

go to the libgen site (links here: https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis ) and search for the paper.

OrphanCrow

Old Hippie, archive.org archives historic publications but it does not archive "historic scientific publications".

I am looking for scientific articles that have been published in credible medical journals...not the psuedo science such as stuff related to the canopy theory, the pyramids, and other pseudo science sources that the WT is fond of using.

I am looking for real science sources - medical journal articles. Archive.org is useful, but not for scientific/medical research.

Thank you for the Dixon/Smalley article, jwleaks. Interesting the way that the WT's timeline has large differences to the timeline that sits outside of the ordinary JWs' reach...it is interesting that, in 1981, technology that wouldn't get official WT approval for many years was already being arranged prior to 1981, by the WT and promoted by their goons, the up and coming HLC network

22

Howto: get access to scientific papers

by Anders Andersen in

since most people are not aware on how to get (free*) access to scientific papers and journals, so here's a short list of resources.. search http://scholar.google.com for the paper.

maybe you'll get lucky and find it somewhere for free.. if you can only find a paid for version of the paper, get the title, doi (sort of like an isbn number) and link to the download page of the paper on the paysite.. if you don't know the doi, find it by searching your paper's title on http://crossref.org.

go to the libgen site (links here: https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis ) and search for the paper.

OrphanCrow

Excellent. Much appreciated, jwleaks.

This is interesting...both Dr. Dixon and Smalley have a place in my research of the blood ban. I wonder what report this article is speaking about. 1985 coincides with timeline markers in the bloodless world.

I await your expertise...

22

Howto: get access to scientific papers

by Anders Andersen in

since most people are not aware on how to get (free*) access to scientific papers and journals, so here's a short list of resources.. search http://scholar.google.com for the paper.

maybe you'll get lucky and find it somewhere for free.. if you can only find a paid for version of the paper, get the title, doi (sort of like an isbn number) and link to the download page of the paper on the paysite.. if you don't know the doi, find it by searching your paper's title on http://crossref.org.

go to the libgen site (links here: https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis ) and search for the paper.

OrphanCrow

Jwleaks, I want that particular article. It is referenced in another article and I want to check the source.