OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  44

  Canadian Appeal Court decision made the news: Judges can overturn unfair church edicts

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://news.nationalpost.com/news/religion/alberta-appeal-court-rules-judges-can-overturn-unfair-church-edicts.

  the other day, this court decision was posted on jwn along with a link to the court document, but few expected the media to pick up the story.

  so to all involved, i understand it was a surprise to see the story in print.

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  OrphanCrow

  These are the points on which the JWs judicial hearing fails natural justice rules (thank you to a reddit poster for this list) This is what is at issue:

  1) The Judicial Meeting did not follow any rules of natural justice. Highwood did not afford, inter alia, the Applicant:

  a) Notice of any kind, but certainly not any form of proper notice;

  b) No disclosure of evidence was provided, accordingly, the Applicant could not know the case he was required to answer (Suresh http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2002/2002scc1/2002scc1.html?autocompleteStr=suresh&autocompletePos=1 );

  c) No list of witnesses was provided, nor was there any opportunity to cross-examine them or test the veracity of their statements;

  d) The chairman was in a position of conflict of interest on the basis of prior association (Marques v Dylex http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/1977/1977canlii1157/1977canlii1157.html?resultIndex=1 ), accordingly he had a reasonable apprehension of bias;

  e) Legal or other representation was forbidden;

  f) No support individual was made available before, during or after the proceeding;

  g) Note-taking or recording of the proceeding was forbidden;

  h) The possible outcome was not disclosed;

  i) No hearing rules or by-laws were provided; and,

  j) No rules or by-laws outlining membership requirements and expulsion procedures were provided.
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  44

  Canadian Appeal Court decision made the news: Judges can overturn unfair church edicts

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://news.nationalpost.com/news/religion/alberta-appeal-court-rules-judges-can-overturn-unfair-church-edicts.

  the other day, this court decision was posted on jwn along with a link to the court document, but few expected the media to pick up the story.

  so to all involved, i understand it was a surprise to see the story in print.

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  OrphanCrow

  What the court is going to do in this case is put the elders' JC process under scrutiny.

  The court will look at whether or not the JWs' judicial process follows natural justice principles.

  The judicial hearings that the elders hold do not pass the sniff test and I think they will have a difficult time in court proving that their process is fair and unbiased.

  The principles of natural justice concern procedural fairness and ensure a fair decision is reached by an objective decision maker. Maintaining procedural fairness protects the rights of individuals and enhances public confidence in the process.

  The shunning is a consequence of the elders' actions in their JC and it is the JC itself that will come under the microscope. This is a very good thing as we all know that the JCs that the elders hold are kangaroo courts that do not give the accused the right of full disclosure, the right of representation, and the right to an objective decision maker.

  This court case is happening in Canada, not the States. We are not governed by the constitution of the United States, we are governed by the Charter of Rights and Freedom. The Canadian Charter does not give a religion the freedom to oppress.

  This case will have less to do with the shunning that arose from the JC and more to do with whether or not Mr. Wall's civil rights were upheld in the elders' judicial process itself. The elders will be held responsible for the consequences of their action of disfellowshipping based on whether or not their process to arrive at that decision followed natural justice rules.
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  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

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  OrphanCrow

  sfb: I would add that there is simply no evidence that JWs' status as a proselytising community has ever been in doubt. Especially in the United States where they fought many legal battles on that basis

  Of course the fact that the "JWs status as a proselytising community" has never been in doubt. I didn't say that

  I said that the preaching is a fundamental element that is required for the WTS to qualify for religious status. Period.

  And, that religious status has been challenged many times in court. Maintaining that religious status is what has been difficult and the preaching work is what contributes to defining the JWs as a religion

  *to add - am I right that nobody who has offered comments has bothered to read the links? If anyone had read the pdfs, they would know that it was critical for the WTS to establish that their publishing company's product (literature) was attached to a religious activity.
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  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

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  OrphanCrow

  fisherman: FF truly believed it.

  Of course he did. Freddy was a true believer.

  It is handy to have those kind of people around. It would have been pretty easy for a true believer to have interpreted tax problems as a "sign of the end". Freddy was nuts
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  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

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  OrphanCrow

  ding: The date was announced in 1966 in Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, so I doubt it had anything to do with a tax exemption in 1971 or 1974.

  Do you have information that confirms that the WTS was not under investigation concerning their tax status in 1966 or in the years leading up to that? Are you aware of what was happening with non-profit tax law at that time?

  Did you read the pdfs I linked to?

  The struggle to maintain tax status did not just happen overnight. There was a whole list of corporations that lost tax status in 1971. I am sure that the IRS didn't just wake up on January 1st 1971 and say...let's take away property tax concessions to all these nonprofits.

  It is a process and one that can take years. The WTS would have known what was in the works for years before it actually happened
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  10

  JW Baptism

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://abc7.com/religion/video-kid-cant-wait-to-be-baptized-/1500814/.

  ok folks not a jw.lol but it would add some excitement at the assembly..

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  OrphanCrow

  Millie: Unlike the stern JWs who measure to make sure a toe didnt stick out or it doesnt count and they re- dunk you.

  Haha! I remember my dad always being the one of the guys who did the dunking at the assemblies. He was big and strong but he couldn't swim.

  At the small summer assemblies, they would use a horse trough that was brought in just for the baptism. At this one assembly, a very large woman was being baptized and Dad had a really hard time with her. Not only did her toes float up above the water, and she barely fit in the trough, but she panicked and pulled my dad in under the water at one point. My dad almost drowned. It took some assistance to get all of her properly baptized.

  
  

  
  
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  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

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  OrphanCrow

  sir82: The 1975 doctrine was introduced in 1966, long before they lost their exemption in 1971

  There was a lead up to the exemption being lost. It didn't come out of the blue

  And of course they had been knocking on doors & peddling literature for decades beforehand.

  Of course. And they had been fighting for that to be recognized as "religious activity" in the courts for that long too

  millie: I think freddo is referring to Fred Franz obsession with the date of 1975.

  Ah...now I get it. Thanks Millie.
  
  

  
  
  
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  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

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  OrphanCrow

  Mad Freddy?

  Nope, It isn't one of my pet subjects. I just stumbled upon this while looking for something else.

  My pet subject is blood. As high as the horses' bridles
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  53

  The Real Reason why the WT predicted Armageddon in 1975

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.

  one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?

  what was their real purpose?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  OrphanCrow

  I am of the opinion that the WT doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones. One of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the Armageddon prediction of 1975. Why would the WTS make this prediction? What was their real purpose?

  I think I have found it.

  Surprise, surprise....it is $$$$$$$$$$$$

  Tax exemption.

  In the late 60s and early 70s, the WTS was trying desperately to hang onto their property tax exemption. Their exemption was revoked in 1971 and re-instated in 1974.

  Trends in Nonprofit Corporation Law 1976 (downloadable pdf)

  ...in July 1974, the New York high court ordered tax exemption (ended in 1971) restored to property in New York City owned by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, known as Jehovah's Witnesses.8 " In a unanimous opinion, the court ruled that the organization "is organized and conducted exclusively for religious purposes within the meaning of the statute."

  The preaching activity was the critical component that determined whether or not their publishing business would get viewed as a for profit organization or a religious organization.

  For example, the American Bible Society had their tax exemption revoked because they were simply a Bible publishing company with no affiliated religious activities. The WTS, on the other hand, could prove a religious purpose for their literature and the distribution of such by their members was a defining feature in establishing that religious purpose.
  

  Real Property Tax Exemption in New York: When Is a Bible Society Not Religious?

  ...to secure an exemption as a religious organization a publishing organization must be able to prove an affiliation with a recognized religious denomination.

  In the years that the WTS was fighting to retain their tax status, it was important for the religious entity (Jehovah's Witnesses) to be actively involved in making the circulation of that literature a religious activity, thus falling under religious protection from tax rather than the WTS just appearing as a publishing house.

  The WTS needed the JWs to be out on the streets, knocking doors, being visible and active. Their tax status depended on it. And how was that done? Simple...they told the JWs that Armageddon was coming and that their lives depended on them getting out there and "spreading the word" (AKA...establishing religious purpose for the WTS literature)

  They were successful. Their tax status got restored in 1974. And Armageddon was delayed.
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  19

  New blood cards came to our hall today

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  at the end of the meeting an elder, by way of announcements said there is a new blood document that he said would be passed out to every baptized member of the congregation by way of their service group overseer.

  i knew this day was coming, just had no idea of when.

  he said it was a simplified version and sure to make you sign up for suicide.

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  OrphanCrow