Posts by OrphanCrow

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

richard: So you are saying you can take two African American men and put them into the same situation and if one says that he felt racially prejudiced against and the other feels that he did not experience racial prejudice. You are going to call one of them a liar and believe the other one?

I know you addressed this to Outlaw but...I think you are just being silly now.

Let me give you another, similar situation. Instead of two black men, take two women who are in an abusive relationship and ask them the same question. Ask them if they think they are abused.

I would bet money that at least one of them, if not both, would say, "What?? Who? me??? NO! I am not abused! No way!"

Do you know what that phenomena is called? It is called Stockholm Syndrome. Look it up. It fits that abused woman situation, it fits the example you gave with the black men, and it fits YOU to a "T".

Richard, you are displaying signs of experiencing Stockholm Syndrome.

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

Richard, I totally accept that what you have described as your subjective experience is just that - your subjective, anecdotal experience.

Of course it is.

What I think others, and myself, have been trying to say is that you are experiencing incongruence.

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

That is sad, Richard. It truly is.

I don't want to burst your bubble...but, how do you know what those people thought or what they said about you when you weren't there.

I will make a wild guess and say that you served a valuable service for them in some sort of position that took on a workload that gave them the opportunity to say," Oh, look at brother so and so! He works so hard for the org and you wouldn't even know he is one of those homos! Ah, well...as long as he keeps serving Jehovah and doesn't make the org look bad by actually practicing his sexuality, we will smile and gave him credit! After all...who would do his job if he left?"

I am glad that you felt like you were validated as a human being by other JWs - that was nice of them.

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

Excues me, Richard, but it appears like your definition of "homophobic" doesn't fall into the same parameters of what is generally accepted as being homophobic

You state that " I had told plenty of people I was gay and never was treated differently."

You absolutely were treated differently. You were treated differently than if you were heterosexual. You were denied the state of being a fully functioning adult with the right to chose who it is that you have a sexual relationship with. You were denied the life of having a partner to share that life with fully (including sexually)

An organization that denies a gay person the right to experience life as a fully functioning sexual adult is homophobic. And that is a fact. *to add...and that includes every single individual that supports such an organization

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

Richard, you seem like a fairly intelligent person.

But....it appears like your rational processes have been tipped a little sideways

Stick around and educate yourself with "facts" that come from more than one source. That way you can demonstrate that your intelligence is useful for more than just an egocentric view of the world

130

Not a sympathizer

by Richard Oliver in

i think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.

i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.

i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.

OrphanCrow

First statement:

It is human nature to look for facts and believe only facts that reinforces ones' own beliefs of what is happening in the world.

Last statement:

I don't believe witnesses as a group are homophobic but certainly people inside of the religion are.

You confirmed your first statement with your last.

46

Some apostates are coming across as crazed psychopaths

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i'm not sure whether or not my view on this is correct so please leave your input.

in recent months i've been viewing youtube videos.

again, it might just be my view but there has been an increased amount of random people grabbing a camera and doing vlogs.

OrphanCrow

Life is to short: After Randy's rant this weekend I am starting to think JW's are more damaged than most believe. I have started to think they could be hurt the same if not worse than Scientology. There are just to many who lose it in very unproductive ways.

From what I understand, Randy's "rant" needs to be understood from a medical perspective and absorbed with a great deal of compassion for all involved. And with an awareness that his condition, a totally human one, can happen to any one of us. His rant humbles me.

I think that keeping our behavior controlled and trying to be rational at all times can be, in and of itself, behavior that results in "rants". All it takes is for the right button to be pushed sometimes.

Hell, I had been "out" for almost 40 years when I went into a meltdown publicly in an interaction with a JW woman. It was horrendous - I had handled everything well in the unexpected interchange with her for several minutes when she 'hit a button'. And I erupted. Embarrassingly so - it was like I was outside my body and the rage spilled out.

Suppressed speech - which everyone who has been, or still is, a JW has experienced - will escape from our control sometimes and when it does....the voice can be pretty loud.

Was my behavior productive as activism? Absolutely not. That JW woman that I had a meltdown against was terrified (and so were some of the neighbors) and I know the story spread. I was an insane person (and it was true - my sanity slipped). After 40 years...the madness reigned. And it may very well do it again sometime. I hope not.

But, the next time after my insanity episode, and every time since, that I have had a JW encounter, I have been sane and rational...sort of...mostly...well, almost

46

Some apostates are coming across as crazed psychopaths

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i'm not sure whether or not my view on this is correct so please leave your input.

in recent months i've been viewing youtube videos.

again, it might just be my view but there has been an increased amount of random people grabbing a camera and doing vlogs.

OrphanCrow

TheRebel: It's all part of the healing that's the way I view it.

Me too. I agree with you Rebel.

I would be surprised if some people didn't react in the manner that Jambon described in the OP. Those who behave irrationally are only a reflection of the irrational place that they have been put in because of a crazed, psychopathic religion.

Those people who act out publicly against JWs aren't engaging in activism per se - they are making visible the pain and frustration they have experienced.

Is it good to see? No...viewing other people's pain is uncomfortable and we often will react with disgust and condemnation when that pain is thrown in our face. We don't like it. It would be nice if everyone could behave rationally and in an upright manner. But that isn't what being human is all about.

The org has taken these people's power away and the resulting rage demonstrates the intense need that some people have to take their power back.

I only hope that when that rage is spent, that they find a healthier way to get and maintain their personal power.

Rage on, rage on and scream to the sky. If that is what you need to do - just do it. I don't care if you do. It is how the healing starts.

49

How do you categorise the Society - Cult or High control religion

by UnshackleTheChains in

i have often seen many categorise the organisation in different ways.

some say cult, some say high control religion.

cult or high control religion?.

OrphanCrow

unshacklethechains: How do you categorise the Society - Cult or High control religion

There is no "or".

The Society is both.

They fit into the category of "totalitarian organization". It doesn't matter if you want to call it a high control religion or a cult, those are just labels that are stuck on it - it doesn't change what it actually is

39

...It Belongs to the Society

by Lostandfound in

way back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.

my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.

my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.

OrphanCrow

Richard, the congregations in Canada are registered as 'charities'. They must abide by the laws governing charities. You have formulated your questions based on your understanding of a for profit corporation.

Unfortunately, in Canada at least, if a congregation is dissolved, the money that is realized as a result of holding assets, would, by law, only be able to be transferred to a "qualified donee". In Canada, that qualified donee is the WTS.

The only way for a congregation to avert the funds realized from a sale of a KH, would be to not register as a charity to begin with.